Simon and Garfunkel Remasters

[SVL]

I wonder what people think about the sound of the recent S&G remasters (or remixes, proper). Got the Japanese CDs of them last week (same remasters as the US discs).

So far I like the way most of the acoustic-based tracks sound (almost all of Wednesday Morning and Parsley, Sage).

The electric stuff (most of Sounds of Silence and Bookends) sounds too brash and compressed on these CDs. I might even say I liked the "original" CBS CDs better in that respect. The Mobile Fidelity CD of Bookends does not seem to have that problem either.

Some of those bonus tracks on the remixed CDs are excellent.

[Beagle]

I'm still not sure about the Sony Legacy remasters. I have two of the Blue Oyster Cults and S&G Bookends and Best Of, as well as a few other miscellaneous Legacy items, mastered in New York by VA. They are basically clean and clear, but somewhat textured and cool sounding. I never had a good vinyl of Bridge Over Troubled Water (my 1A copies are noisy) so the remasters are an improvement in that respect. But the natural warmth is absent.

[SVL]

Beagle:

I can agree with most of your observations re. S&G reissues, though I am not sure what you mean by "textured". If that means there are things jutting out of that mix which were not so conspicuous before, that is my impression too.

I wish I had some good S&G vinyl... As for Legacy remasters in general, they can be too bright and processed. I had a Legacy reissue of Al Di Meola's Splendido Hotel which I thought was very good until I heard a good condition vinyl record of the album.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by SVL
I wish I had some good S&G vinyl...


One day, thumbing through the (mostly worthless) LPs in the Goodwill location in Central Square, Cambridge, MA, I found near-mint original stereo 2-eye copies (most of 'em still in shrink) of ALL of the S&G LPs except Wednesday Morning -- including the Graduate soundtrack -- for $1 each. That was a good day.

Just a few days later I stumbled upon a VG+ mono 2-eye of Sounds of Silence -- $3.

You should track at least a few of these down. They're really crystal-clear and very rich, just wonderful. I haven't heard the latest CD remasters (anyone compared them to the orig. vinyl?), but I can't imagine they'd be better.

Just last night I opened my Classic Records reissue of Bridge Over Troubled Water (33 1/3rpm version), and was really blown away. They did a fantastic job. Haven't A/B'd it with the original 2-eye yet, but it's at least as good, IMO.

For that one, if you're into vinyl, you may want to shell out for the Classic if you can't find a clean original.

[Beagle]

I am not sure what you mean by "textured".

Just a sort of cool grain in the upper mids, moreso on the BOC titles.

That Classic BOTW LP must be the bomb. I have UK and 1A Canadian LP's that are just badly pressed, noisy and in the case of the UK, muffled. But the recording levels are so low at times , I suppose it is impossible for the noise floor not to interfere.

[SVL]

Originally posted by Beagle


But the recording levels are so low at times , I suppose it is impossible for the noise floor not to interfere.

That is exactly the problem that I had with all S&G LPs that I tried (not originals) - UK, Dutch or Australian. With that low a level, anything but a good condition LP becomes almost unlistenable.

On the contrary, the new remasters are very loud, which may be a source of different problems.

[Mitch Kaufman]

The newer S&G reissues are severely lacking to my ears. Ansensi apparently remixed the first three albums but not the last two ("Bookends" and "BOTW"), probably because of the latter's complexity. In both cases, there are problems.

First, the remixed albums do not sound like the LPs or the earlier transfers (from the "Collected Works" box set) which were supervised by none other than Roy Halee himself. The echo on the voices (particularly Simon's solo voice) in the "Parsley, Sage" album is reduced in the new remasterings and it sounds like different technology was used. (The characteristic Columbia echo sound in the late '50s/early '60s sounds like a very sharp flange-like effect--see the Johnny Mathis and Tony Bennett recordings from that era, faithfully reproduced in some of the older reissues.)

Good tracks to demonstrate this are "Cloudy" and "Patterns." Whatever the other advantages of SBM technology, the basic sound of these tracks has been altered--in my opinion for the worse.

Conversely, the "Collected Works" remasters (within the limits of A/D conversion of the day--early '80s) sound warmer and more "organic" (for lack of a better word). They have a more ethereal, "wetter" sound that is more in keeping with that of the original LPs.

As for the last two albums, because Ansensi was working with later-generation tapes (as in all previous reissues), the results are inferior in terms of clarity and detail to the earlier albums, but closer to the sound of the LPs. Still, for whatever reason (deterioration of the tapes perhaps) these do not sound as good as the Halee transfers (which, after all, were done when the tapes were twenty years newer), nor are they even within hailing distance of the LPs, which were in another class altogether.

The Ansensi transfers of the earlier albums in particular may be clinically superior (that is, you may be able to hear certain instrumental textures more clearly), but my feeling is they do not do justice to the original recordings.

MK

[lukpac]

A few notes:

- our very own Steve Hoffman couldn't believe that PSR&T (title track) was a remix, as it sounded so much like the original mix. I do agree that there are differences on some other songs, though.

- the Collected Works mastering was done in 1990 or so, not 1980. Roy was using tapes several generations down, and it clearly shows in cases. Roy was *very* unhappy with both the tapes he was given and the results. He had said he could have made better sounding transfers from LPs.

Also, echo was added in many cases - Mrs. Robinson comes to mind. Listen to the fade-out. There's echo there NOT on the original. Could be why you think they are "wetter" - they are! But that's not on the originals.

- the new remasters used the original 2 track masters of the last two albums. Not copy tapes. I believe both tapes were in fine shape.

- Roy *did* work with Bob Irwin and company for the reissues.

[Patrick M]

Well, eh, a few notes:

(I've waited my whole life to say that.)

- our very own Steve Hoffman couldn't believe that PSR&T (title track) was a remix, as it sounded so much like the original mix. I do agree that there are differences on some other songs, though.
Don't you mean "Scarborough Fair/Canticle"? Anyway, it was not just that track, Steve though the entire album was the original mix. He has since been convinced otherwise by a brilliant young audiophile who will remain nameless.
- the Collected Works mastering was done in 1990 or so, not 1980. Roy was using tapes several generations down, and it clearly shows in cases. Roy was *very* unhappy with both the tapes he was given and the results. He had said he could have made better sounding transfers from LPs.
"Collected Works" on LP, in fact, came out much earlier than the CD set, and 1980 is probably about right.
Also, echo was added in many cases - Mrs. Robinson comes to mind. Listen to the fade-out. There's echo there NOT on the original. Could be why you think they are "wetter" - they are! But that's not on the originals.
Maybe, but he still has a very good, valid point about the Columbia ambience (echo, reverb) and how it is egregious in its absence on the new remixes. That's what bugs me the most about the remixes. Check out the drum sound on "Homeward Bound" and you'll hear it. Other things are different as well -- e.g., the effect on the guitar at the beginning of "The 59th Street Bridge Song," the piano bleed on "7 O'Clock News/Silent Night" has been "corrected."
- Roy *did* work with Bob Irwin and company for the reissues.
Maybe they should have outsourced this project to someone else...

[YaQuin]

Slightly off topic but related:

The 1999 Legacy Best of Simon & Garfunkel is very dissapointing in one respect:

This cd has about 65 minutes of music on it. YET, SOME GENIUS AT LEGACY DECIDED TO USE THE < 2 MINUTE VERSION OF "THE 59th STREET BRIDGE SONG (FEELIN' GROOVY)" INSTEAD OF THE ORIGINAL VERSION WITH THE ACAPELLA ENDING! How frustrating and disappointing. I'll be selling it on eBay soon! :mad:

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by GammaSpace
I'll be selling it on eBay soon! :mad:

I'll give you $2 for it. I need that version of Fakin' It. ;)

[Patrick M]

First, the remixed albums do not sound like the LPs or the earlier transfers (from the "Collected Works" box set) which were supervised by none other than Roy Halee himself. The echo on the voices (particularly Simon's solo voice) in the "Parsley, Sage" album is reduced in the new remasterings and it sounds like different technology was used. (The characteristic Columbia echo sound in the late '50s/early '60s sounds like a very sharp flange-like effect--see the Johnny Mathis and Tony Bennett recordings from that era, faithfully reproduced in some of the older reissues.)

That is *exactly* what I have been saying about the remixes myself, albeit not on this forum.

Conversely, the "Collected Works" remasters (within the limits of A/D conversion of the day--early '80s) sound warmer and more "organic" (for lack of a better word). They have a more ethereal, "wetter" sound that is more in keeping with that of the original LPs.

Agreed -- they are more faithful to the original sound, but they suck nonetheless. There is *no* bass on the CW set, the sound is very artificial, and a good original LP will destroy them handily.

BTW, the "Definitive" S&G UK CD is also closer to the LP sound. I don't know if they used the same masters as CW, or if those songs were remastered for that compilation.

Luke's right about the "Collected Works" set on CD release. I was just yanking his chain by bringing up the LP set.

He's also right about the last two albums. The source for the "Bookends" remaster is clearly better than what was used previously. I think the MoFi "Bookends" is still the best, but the remaster is way better than what you get on CW.

[martinimaster]

GOT THE S&G BOX PARSLEY SOUNDED SO BAD I THOUGHT IT WAS DEFECTIVE THE ACOUSTIC GUITAR WAS DISTORTED KIND OF LIKE WHEN THERES DUST ON A STYLUS NOT LISTENABLE

[Chip Stylus]

I have the 3-cd Old Friends set and although not all the rare stuff is here,
and although the set is largely remixed, I am quite happy with it.

The sound is a little drier, echo obviously sparser and more modern
but it sounds sensitively done to these ears, and there's no heavy NR
like on some remixes (read: Who, Yellow Sub Songtrack).

Try it, it turns up used now and again. You'll like it, unless you just
have to hear every note the duo ever cut.

- - - -

Yes the MoFi Bookends edges past it for sound
once you get past that smileyface eq.

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by thomoz
Yes the MoFi Bookends edges past it for sound
once you get past that smileyface eq.

Steve has said, more than once, that the MoFi Bookends is a flat transfer. I tend to believe him.

[Sckott]

Originally posted by Patrick M


Steve has said, more than once, that the MoFi Bookends is a flat transfer. I tend to believe him.

Yep. "Bookends" on MFSL is one of the best ever MFSLs. Ya bet yer butt!

[Steven]

I read there is a Japanese only Sony SBM gold Cd of Sounds of Silence (original mix). Anyone heard?

On the Mastersound BOTW, Why Don't You Write me has some slight tape wobbling. Does the new remaster have this?

Also, I once read (but now can't find the page) that the Collected Works CD erroneously says "Digitally Remastered" by Roy Halee. Halee said the same tapes were used as the 1980 LP Boxset (the fidelity of which he was never happy with).