Can I use a computer monitor as a TV?

[Mal]

I want a screen in my listening room predominanly so I can watch TV but also for use with my laptop and DVD-A player. Rather than spending more than necessary I am wondering if I can use a computer monitor. You seem to get much higher resolution panels for less money so it seems like the best way to get good quality images for the least outlay.

Am I missing something?

Is the problem in getting a signal from a TV tuner that will be compatible with the monitor?

I am considering this Fujistu-Siemens model:

http://www.fujitsu-siemens-shop.co.uk/cmcPage.asp?idPage=958&mscssid=%7B0AE96707-EBD0-455F-9425-B94331DB370E%7D

Some of the specs:

22" (55.9 cm) LCD widescreen display
Up to 1680 x 1050 pixels graphics resolution
1000:1 contrast ratio
5ms typical response time


So, it has a resolution of 1680x1050 (16:9) - comparing that to an LCD TV in the same price range which only has 640x480 (4:3) it seems ludicrous to not go the monitor route.

What am I missing?

I like the fact that this Fujitsu-Siemens is a very simple design and that the speakers are not stuck on the side since I need it to fit into a tight space (about 650mm or 25" wide). Seeing as I'll be using my hi-fi for the sound I don't even need any speakers but a monitor without speakers seems hard to find these days!

Here a pic of the model I'm interested in:

[proufo]

Sure, you just need a capture card with a tuner and/or A/V inputs.

I use a Hauppage 250, but there are much cheaper models.

[Mal]

Sure, you just need a capture card with a tuner and/or A/V inputs.

I use a Hauppage 250, but there are much cheaper models.

Ah, but I don't want to need a computer in my listening room at all times - is there such a thing as a TV tuner box with a suitable output for this Fujitsu-Siemens monitor, ie either D-Sub (15-pin) or DVI-D?

[Dillydipper]

While we're on the subject...can I use my old 9-inch Philco as a doorstop?

[andyinstal]

You will need a VCR to use as a tuner and then you will need a NTSC to VGA converter or a line doubler. Basically something to convert the NTSC video to any computer resolution so the monitor can display it. I use something I got on the internet for about $60 to convert the video signal from my Escient DVDM100 to be displayed on my computer monitor that is not being used for a computer. If you throw the VCR in the mix (or a DirecTV receiver?) then you are set.

[Mal]

You will need a VCR to use as a tuner and then you will need a NTSC to VGA converter or a line doubler. Basically something to convert the NTSC video to any computer resolution so the monitor can display it. I use something I got on the internet for about $60 to convert the video signal from my Escient DVDM100 to be displayed on my computer monitor that is not being used for a computer. If you throw the VCR in the mix (or a DirecTV receiver?) then you are set.

Here in the UK you can get something called a digital "freeview" tuner which gives you access to some 30+ digital TV channels that require no subscription. Ideally what I'd like to do is find a "freeview" box that has a 15-pin VGA output or a DVI-D output.

If the "freeview" box has an HDMI output can I just convert that to DVI-D?

What if I have a component output - can I convert that to VGA easily?

[andyinstal]

Component can be converted to VGA with a converter, but if the Freeview box has an HDMI output, it probably will not output the correct HDMI for the computer monitor.

[Feisal K]

If the "freeview" box has an HDMI output can I just convert that to DVI-D?


very easy - lots of HDMI to DVI (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&style=&seq=1&format=4) cables - cheap, too


What if I have a component output - can I convert that to VGA easily?

now this is tough. I researched this sometime back and YPbPr to VGA converter runs from £70 to about £200


there are also lots of standalone TV tuners -
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=TV-BOX-HD
from Amazon (B000PGP130) too

[SolarWind]

I would avoid using analog VGA input (D-Sub). The downside of all PAL (or NTSC) to VGA converters is that you always get a slighly blurry picture (need extra shielded VGA cables, etc.) + VGA standard will crop all widescreen TV, of course.

You need a HDMI to DVI converter (aka break out box)
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3939
http://www.clearly-av.co.uk/EXT-HDMI-2-DVIAUD.html?id=DrqWEIFD

But consdier this: If you buy a 16:9 widescreen TFT computer monitor + Freeview DVB set-top box + HDMI to DVI converter it's gonna cost you and you end up having 3 different boxes + 3 power connect cables + 3 interconnect cables + 2 different remote controls for switching TV channels and adjusting the volume in your living room.

It might be easier (and considering the total cost, also cheaper) just to seek out an Integrated Digital TV set (IDTV (http://www.navito.co.uk/integrated-digital-tvs.aspx)):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/keywords=idtv&search-type=ss&index=electronics-uk

That's what I'd do anyway. Just one device, one Remote Control, no cables, full quality DVB picture, native widescreen TV support, and looking at total costs comes likely cheaper in the end.

[KT88]

Like they say, it can be done if you want to use it to "watch TV" but don't expect to get the resolution of the monitor. In fact, it's actually more affordable or just about as to get a full blown TV. You'll get a slightly lower rez TV by the numbers but it will actually look better in situ. The problem is sharing it with the computer, the TV won't work for that. Thing is though that you have a laptop and it has a screen, so all you really need is a TV. Just pony up and buy one ;-).

Seriously, those cheap adapter boxes with tuners are crap and they only allow like 480 rez anyway, are not that inexpensive, and they just make it viewable on the monitor, not HD. You can't stretch the resolution. Now there must be a full HD unit out there but it isn't going to be cheap. By the time that you add up the cost, the hassle of having two remotes and extra cables, etc, it doesn't look so good. What will look good in a modest sized room is a nice 32" LCD which as a DVI or a VGA input in addition to a built-in tuner. A 42" plasma will be the ticket for a bit larger space. If you are going to watch movies or even TV with anything other than the news on, a 20" or so screen is not going to be so sweet unless the room is not very deep.

Take it from a guy who has tried it. I have had a couple of odd-ball video systems over the years to allow TV on PC and PC on TV, etc. A few years ago and really even early last year it made a bit of sense budget wise if you really only ould use a 19" or so. Today however, the prices are dropping and the screens are growing on flat panel TV. You'll be much happier with the real deal.
-Bill

[Doug Sclar]

My first HD was with a computer monitor. I got a RCA DTC-100 back in 2000 and hooked it up to a NEC CRT computer monitor. The RCA was a combo unit with a Directv tuner and a ATSC tuner built in. It had a VGA output which I used to drive the monitor.

As a result I was watching at 1920 x 1080 resolution long before most HDTV displays offered that resolution. The only problem was that it was only 22" and it was not widescreen. Sort of a personal HD experience. None the less, it looked amazing.

[Xico]

I think an easy solution would be something like this, a monitor with built-in TV tuner:
LG Monitor (http://www.directron.com/m1917asm.html)
I know LG has some monitors like that.

Or, just buy a small TV set. Perhaps the easiest and less expensive way.

[E-Rock]

So, it has a resolution of 1680x1050 (16:9)

You are incorrect - 1680x1050 is actually 16:10, not 16:9. This may not seem like a big difference, but the 16:10 native resolution of the panel in question will not conform to the 16:9 native aspect ratio of any HD television signal. Remember that native HD is either 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080p). So, to correctly display either of these HD resolutions with a 1680x1050 panel, some type of scaler must be used (either in hardware or in software). Thus, the panel in question may or may not give you acceptable image quality for an HD video signal....

[Mal]

You are incorrect - 1680x1050 is actually 16:10, not 16:9. This may not seem like a big difference, but the 16:10 native resolution of the panel in question will not conform to the 16:9 native aspect ratio of any HD television signal. Remember that native HD is either 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080p). So, to correctly display either of these HD resolutions with a 1680x1050 panel, some type of scaler must be used (either in hardware or in software). Thus, the panel in question may or may not give you acceptable image quality for an HD video signal....

Thanks for pointing that out - when I said "16:9" I just meant it was "widescreen" as opposed to "4:3". I had no idea they wouldn't simply be 16:9 - that would be too easy for the consumer I suppose :nyah:

So, are the pixels square? Is an LCD panel with 1680x1050 pixels really 16:10?

[Mal]

I'm now leaning towards this one from Fujitsu-Siemens:

H22-1W:

http://www.fujitsu-siemens.ie/home/products/displays/tft/scaleoview_h22-1w.html

Spec sheet:

http://vilpublic.fujitsu-siemens.com/vil/pc/vil/datenblaetter/monitore/ds_SCALEOVIEW_H22-1w.pdf

As you can see, it is leaps and bounds ahead of the other model for connectivity:

1 x D-Sub
1 x DVI-D (with HDCP)
1 x HDMI (with HDCP)
1 x Video
1 x S-Video

It costs about £80 more than the L22W-7SD but at least I know I can hook it up to anything (I'm not sure the L22W-7SD even has HDCP enabled on its DVI input).

I'm not sure about whether I'd need to scale for true 16:9 or if the panel deals with that - anyone know for sure?

[E-Rock]

I'm not sure about whether I'd need to scale for true 16:9 or if the panel deals with that - anyone know for sure?

Using the DVI-D or HDMI input, the monitor, itself, will likely scale the signal to it's native 1680x1050 resolution (can you download the manual?). My guess is that it will probably look pretty good, but one can't be certain unless one is actually looking at the display in person! ;)

[tps]

I've been using an "AV Tool" AVT-3340 video-to-VGA up-convertor for years with my computer monitor. It has 3 sets of inputs: VGA pass-through from the computer, NTSC composite video, which is connected to a VHS VCR/analog tuner, and NTSC S-video, which is connected to a DVD player. The up-converted signal is fairly sharp and clean for an NTSC analog source.

http://www.avtoolbox.com/

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3340.shtml

I don't watch enough TV to have a separate TV. Definitely not enough to worry about HDTV until I have to, but when that time comes I'll probably just get an HDTV tuner to use as a front end for the computer monitor.

[JoelDF]

Thanks for pointing that out - when I said "16:9" I just meant it was "widescreen" as opposed to "4:3". I had no idea they wouldn't simply be 16:9 - that would be too easy for the consumer I suppose :nyah:

So, are the pixels square? Is an LCD panel with 1680x1050 pixels really 16:10?

Yes. My Dell 2007WFP widescreen 20" LCD has the same resolution and it is in fact 16:10

But it also appropriately shows 16:9 material from DVDs with an ever-so-slight black bar at the top and bottom since it does not overscan. So it's not distorting the picture.

This same LCD has inputs for composite, s-video, DVI and regular VGA. I've played my camcorder straight to it using the composite connector and it worked nicely - but still a bit fuzzy as expected from an SD source. It will pillarbox 4x3 material unless you set the monitor to do otherwise (zoom or stretch are the only other options).

What I still want to try out, but haven't done yet, is hook up my laserdisc player to the s-video input. Just to check it out.

[Solaris]

While we're on the subject...can I use my old 9-inch Philco as a doorstop?

You can't very well use it for anything else, can you. :angel:

[Mal]

OK - I've ordered the H22-1W :)

Thanks for all the input - I've learned a few things about using a monitor as a TV :righton:

Here's a lengthy review of the H22-1W:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-fsc-h22-1w.html

I think the only thing I won't like is the automatic (no manual overide) stretching if 4:3 images to widescreen. I hope I can find a workaround - I know my cable box lets me choose to display the correct native aspect ratio of the TV show, whatever it is, over HDMI to my Plasma screen so I know it is possible. I just need to find a DVD player that does the same!

I guess I can use the laptop and get 4:3 from DVD into the monitor if I have to.

I'm really looking forward to getting back into video games with this monitor - something I used to do a lot before the kids were born (coming up to ages 3 and 6 :help:). I'd kind of forgotten about it but in researching this purchase I was reminded about it and now can't wait to see what Mario is up to!

:)

[Mal]

Here's the perfect Freeview box:

http://www.goodmans.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pid=GDB15HD&language=en-GB

It's cheap and cheerful (~£40) - it has HDMI and 1080i upscaling (although in my experience at this price-point it won't be noticeably better than SD) and from what I gather it should show the correct aspect ratio for all programs on the Fujitsu panel - I'll let you know how I get on......

:)

[Mal]

OK, now I have the monitor (Fujitsu Siemens H22-1W) but I'm not sure how to get correctly scaled images.....

I tried out a 16:9 DVD on my Cambridge Audio 540D through S-Video just for fun last night and it plays the image zoomed so I miss the sides a little and the vertical scale is either a bit squashed if the DVD player is set to 4:3 or a bit stretched if the DVD player is set to 16:9.

Today I figured I'd try HDMI in the hope that all scaling issues would be resolved......

They aren't - in fact I am surpised to find that I get exactly the same thing as before even though this is a different DVD player (Phillips DVP 5960) and I'm using HDMI.

I was expecting scaling in the monitor to give a correctly proportioned image over HDMI - is than not usually the case? Is it possible that my cheapo Philips unit is the problem?

Also, if I try HDMI (DVD out) -> DVI (monitor in) I get no signal - is that normal? This is how I connect my cable TV box to my plasma and I get the correct aspect ratios when I do that so I figured that might be worth a try but I get nothing!

Maybe I should have bought a TV..........

Incidentally, the DVI input definitely works - and the picture looks great when I plug my Power Book G4 into it!

:)

[toptentwist]

My original HD (ATSC) tuner box was an RCA DTC100.

It was designed to be hooked up to an RCA television using a VGA cable.

These tuners were quite popular (they were the most affordable on the market) but there was an issue with some sort of sync timing that was an issue with non-RCA televisions.

That issue was corrected via a software update and I used the thing for a long time in conjunction with a 55" Mitsubishi HDTV rear projection television.

I had to buy a special cable that had a VGA connector on one side - and 5 connectors on the other side (R,G,B,V, and H). But that cable was cheap - and it was JUST a cable - no internal circuitry required... all the cable did was break-out the pins on the VGA connector into their own separate jacks on the other end of the cable...

As an experiment - I hooked the think up directly to a computer monitor using a VGA to VGA cable and it worked great.

I recently retired the tuner because DirecTV offered me a HD DVR... but I'm strongly thinking about doing what you suggested... using the DTC 100 to feed video into a fairly inexpensive computer monitor (in another room).

My only real reluctance to do that - is related to the fact that my old RCA DTC100 ATSC tuner is MPEG-2 only... and I won't be able to get the plethora of new MPEG-4 channels that DirecTV is now offering.


But its definetly a good way to get a good television picture.

Personally, I think the TV vendor community frowns upon products that use a VGA output (like the DTC100 has) because of the price differential you mentioned... if people could build a legitimate HDTV from a $200 monitor and $100 ATSC receiver, the market for $800 hdtvs would start to feel some serious competition.


I'm thinking that its possible to turn my cable around and plug the five inputs into a tuner and put the VGA connector into a monitor... but I think the problem would be that most tuner boxes give a 3 connector component signal (Y, Pr, Pb) not a 5 connector (R,G,B,V,H)... I know my tv will automatically adept when it sees either...

I seem to vaguely recall a mitsubishi ATSC tuner that had a five connector component output...

[Mal]

Looking further into this am I right in concluding that the all important thing I need in order to get the correct aspect ratio is a monitor that supports "1:1 pixel mapping"?

Anyone know if the H22-1W can be made to do this?

I may have to send it back if I can't solve this issue.....

[Mal]

Just tried the PowerBook G4 to play a DVD over the DVI connection.........WOW!!

No cropping/overscan and the image appears to be in the correct ratio - I tried Ben-Hur for the widescreen and the MPI A Hard Day's Night DVD for the 4:3 - both look just as they should with black bars filling out the rest of the screen area.

Is this because the laptop knows the screen ratio/resolution and is scaling the image accordingly or would this indicate that over DVI this monitor is 1:1 pixel mapping?

I'd rather not have to use the laptop to play DVDs - if I can get a DVD player to do what the laptop seems to be doing that would be ideal. Anyone know if it's the laptop or the DVI connection that is the key to getting the correct aspect ratio and no cropping?....

As I said above - I can't seem to get my HDMI DVD player to work on this monitor using a HDMI->DVI converter. This works on my plasma :confused:

If it's all to do with the DVI input then maybe I should consider a DVD player with DVI out?