Return to analog...

[Blazer]

I need some advice in my attempt to begin listening to my records (several hundred) after many years. I do not want to spend a lot of money at this time. If I get "hooked" again, I'll look at upgrading gear later.

Here's a list of my current gear...

preamp: Audio Research LS2BMkII (line stage only - no phono stage)
power amp: Ayre Acoustics V3
speakers: Vandersteen Model 3A
digital: Pioneer Elite PD-65
turntable: Systemdek IIX
tone arm: Profile II
platter mats: felt, old Thorens hard rubber, Oracle soft rubber
stepup amp: Vandersteen OL-1, for moving coil cartridges, must be plugged into a regular phono stage. It has adjustible cartridge loading capabilities through a series of dip switches on the unit.
cartridges:
1) Dynavector Karat 23R, moving coil,
2) Dynavector 10X3, high output moving coil
3) Audio-Technica AT31E, moving coil
4) Shure V15 Type III, moving magnet (no stylus)

FIRST: I need a phono stage. I was thinking of starting with something inexpensive like the Bellari VP129. This would allow me to use the Dynavector 10X3 cartridge since is has enough output (2.5mV) for that phono preamp. I doubt that I can still find a good a stylus for the Shure V15 Type III. Then I could use my Vandersteen head amp with the Bellari VP129 if I want to use the Dynavector Karat 23R or the AT31E. Or should I consider a different phono preamp like one that handles both MM an MC cartridges, like the NAD-PP2?

SECOND: I guess I should buy a new belt for the Sytemdek IIX

THIRD: Should I try to drain the oil from the Systemdek main bearing and replace that oil. The turntable has not been used for 8-10 years.

FOURTH: I used to have a heavy record clamp for keeping the record in tight contact with the platter, but can not locate it. Do I need some device for that purpose?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[sushimaster]

Welcome. With all those records and decent equipment, my question is why did you leave analog in the first place? Just wondering.

- Sushimaster

[proufo]

THIRD: Should I try to drain the oil from the Systemdek main bearing and replace that oil. The turntable has not been used for 8-10 yearsYes, the least you want is wondering if you should have.

Congrats on your return to analog.

[DaveN]

I can say that the VP129 is a quality phonostage for a reasonable price. Mine has operated flawlessly since I got it. However, others here have had some problems with hums. My theory is that this was an early-generation QC problem that has since been corrected. There hasn't been a negative VP129 thread in a long time.

Welcome back to analog. But beware the spiral. First you just want to listen to your current records. Then you see the deals that folks are getting on used records....so you go buy some used records. Then a really cool record is reissued that you cannot live without. Thus, your first $30 vinyl purchase....soon to be followed by many more. Finally, you notice the Blue Note 45rpm jazz reissue program. Followed immediately by a $50 vinyl purchase. Then you start to wonder how much better your records would sound with an upgrade to 'x' hardware. Rock bottom is not much further down the path!

[sushimaster]

But beware the spiral.

Thanks for the warning. In that case I'm already going down the tubes....get it tubes? Seriously I need help.

- Sushimaster

[reverber]

Actually, you can get a very nice stylus for the Shure from JICO - maybe even better than the original and not that expensive.

Cody

[sushimaster]

KAAPOWW!! (http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=SHVN35HESAS)

- Sushimaster

Actually, you can get a very nice stylus for the Shure from JICO - maybe even better than the original and not that expensive.

Cody

[StephenGR12]

Better get that TT some new feet.

[Blazer]

Welcome. With all those records and decent equipment, my question is why did you leave analog in the first place? Just wondering.

- Sushimaster

Well... It all started with a lightning strike. My Old preamp (Robert Grodinsky Research) was hit, along with my Denon POA-2400 power amp. A local shop said that it could not be fixed and I was starting to get into CDs at the time. I fell into a good deal on the AR LS2BMkII, so I bought it. Since the AR did not have a phono stage, I just put up the records for later and never got around to getting that phono stage until now! Later, someone else did fix the RGR preamp and I gave it to my brother, who still uses it. It had a very good phono stage.

So... any more advise on a phono stage? Bellari? Others? and cartridges... Buy a JICO-SAS stylus for the Shure V15 III, or use the Dynavector 10X3? Or add the Vandersteen step up amp to a phono stage and use one of the low output MC cartridges? All opinions welcome... thanks

[sushimaster]

Lightning !!! Holy smokes. I really need to get a heavy duty surge protector.

Anyhow...If I was in your shoes, I would get the Bellari since you're using tube gear and just use your existing working carts until you decide to really get back into vinyl. Good luck.

- Sushimaster

[KT88]

That's actually a very nice set-up and it deserves a very nice phono stage. I would get a full function phonostage myself. I mean, you can get a MM and use the step-up but you are somewhat limited in quality there and you are not taking advantage of the all-in-one design. It really does have quite a few advantages. I know as I have been collecting records since about the time you have judging by your gear. I have had lots of separate head amps and step-up trannies and it is not a perfect world. You have wire issues there as well. Plus the new designs have made use of all new materials for the components. Seriously, even resistors are better now and in a MC phono stage, that is about the "biggest" thing in the way.

A new belt is definately in order as well. I have never been a huge Shure fan but I'll say that no one has ever made an aftermarket stylus that could match theirs. If you can find a NOS unit, you're way better off. Personally, I'd not worry about it though. Even with the NOS stylus, the Karat will smoke it and you'll never even use it. Well, I wouldn't anyway.
-Bill

[Blazer]

Bill... What do you mean by "full function" phonostage? What inexpensive models would you recommend? Thanks

[reverber]

I have never been a huge Shure fan but I'll say that no one has ever made an aftermarket stylus that could match theirs.


Shures have their place (just ask Sony Legacy or Kevin Gray).
That aside, have you heard the JICO? IMHO (and that of a few JICO owners), it actually has a slight edge over the factory original. NOS won't do you any good if it hasn't been stored in an airtight container.

But I digress...

Cody

[MusicMtnMonkey]

Bill... What do you mean by "full function" phonostage? What inexpensive models would you recommend? Thanks

A phono pre with adjustable amplification allowing for a range of MC to MM cartridges (low or high output, maybe .3 mv to 5 or 6mv?).

Adjustable loading so you can customize for different cartridges such as 47Kohm, 100ohm, 60 ohm, and 33 ohm. If high quality, the more choices the better... This loading thing makes a big difference in the sound from my meager experiments, ymmv...

[KT88]

Bill... What do you mean by "full function" phonostage? What inexpensive models would you recommend? Thanks

A phono pre with adjustable amplification allowing for a range of MC to MM cartridges (low or high output, maybe .3 mv to 5 or 6mv?).

Adjustable loading so you can customize for different cartridges such as 47Kohm, 100ohm, 60 ohm, and 33 ohm. If high quality, the more choices the better... This loading thing makes a big difference in the sound from my meager experiments, ymmv...

That's exactly what I mean. Of course I will recommend the DV P-75. It isn't exactly inexpensive but then neither is any of your gear. It will mate wonderfully with your DV cartridges and eliminate the need for your step-up device and another set of cables. You need a serious phono stage to get good sound. A nice LOMC cartridge like the Karat can sound amazing but it needs to be properly loaded and it must have exceptionally low noise amplification. That isn't gonna be cheap but it doesn't have to cost a fortune either. The rest of your system would be levels ahead and you would have a serious bottleneck there without such a quality phono stage.

CD players are getting really good these days for a not too ridiculous price and so are making analog rigs that once walked all over anything digital sound marginal. It is really getting more expensive to put together an analog system that will compete in most areas. And that is coming from a record collector from way back! If you want to really be able to enjoy your vinyl collection without having to make apologies for it, it'll cost a bit more this yaer when compared to your new CD players.
-Bill

[KT88]

Yes, that's a good point about the storage as they are getting a little long in the tooth. I wouldn't count them out just yet though when compared to modern "equivelents". Surely the suspension will be fresher but its the cantilever and stylus that really made them special. Those cartridges are finicky as well. It's not just the stylus shape but the fact that they require a very low mass arm for optimum performance. I have had them on about everything and they will work but they don't sing until you get them on a really light weight arm. The Shure VN35MR stylus had a hollow boron cantilever which is unobtanium these days. I sold a V15xMR and two NOS VN35MR stylus not so long ago. They all went very quickly at what I thought was a rather price without any squabling about the cost at all. In fact, one fellow bought both of the stylus. Still... not really my cup of joe.
-Bill

[sberger]

That's exactly what I mean. Of course I will recommend the DV P-75. It isn't exactly inexpensive but then neither is any of your gear. It will mate wonderfully with your DV cartridges and eliminate the need for your step-up device and another set of cables. You need a serious phono stage to get good sound. A nice LOMC cartridge like the Karat can sound amazing but it needs to be properly loaded and it must have exceptionally low noise amplification. That isn't gonna be cheap but it doesn't have to cost a fortune either. The rest of your system would be levels ahead and you would have a serious bottleneck there without such a quality phono stage.


-Bill

I love the P-75. I use the MKII version with a Dyna 20XL MKII and the combination is superb.

[Blazer]

OK... I have a shot at a used Bellari VP129 MM phono amp to start with. If I get this, which would be better:

1) Buy a JICO-SAS stylus (SHVN35HESAS) for my Shure V15 III

--- OR ---

2) Buy a new MM like the Shure M97xE or Audio-Technica AT440MLa

Both options are similarly priced.

(SystemdekIIx turntable and Profile II tonearm)

[sushimaster]

I vote the JICO SAS, b/c that's $100 towards the stylus alone. And I like to recycle.

I think it's a toss up btwn the M96xE and the AT440MLa.

- Sushimaster