How do all these audio firms survive

[taters]

I grew up in the heyday of high-end audio. When I was a kid there were 15 stores within a 25 mile radius of my house. There was alot of equipment available but nothing like today. There are more Turntables, speakers, electronics and tweaks available today than back then. My question is how do all these firms stay in business. The market has for hi-end audio has been shrinking for the last 20 years. Within 25 miles of my house today there is only one guy that is dedicated to 2 channel. The rest are home theater stores that don't even want to talk to an audiophile.

I

[sushimaster]

By offering something what most online venders can't. A demo room where you can actually test the product before you buy. And before and after sales service.

- Sushimaster

[Gary]

Not to mention quality products (build, sound, aesthetics, etc.)

[taters]

Not to mention quality products (build, sound, aesthetics, etc.)

You are missing my point. If the market for high-end audio is shrinking which it obviously is. And there are alot less stores than there used to be. Who are the selling the products to?

[Shakey]

The population kept growing over those twenty years, too.

[Gary]

Oh, I see now.

I know of some local stores that are doing quite well - with no (or very little) internet sales! They seem to have products in "all" price ranges, too.

They're out there..... and seem to be willing to trek to "audiophile" stores.

And look at the reviewers and publications available - physical magazines such as Stereophile, ToneAudio (online) Magazine.... I think the "high end" is alive and well.

Please note... IMHO, "audiophile" and "high end" is pretty well everything that is not sold in generic "Best Buy" stores or specialty stores that have only one product line.

[doodlebug]

The market has moved onto other priorities. Yes, there are still quite a few vendors out there but they have had to choose additional channels to get their product to market than the old, single-proprietor sales model.

For that matter, I think (with no specific marketing data to back me up!) that there are even more high-end vendors out there now than there were back in the 60s. They cater to very specific niches in the market, too. Heck, there are more providers of kit-built gear today than there were back in the 60s, too.

The thing is that they're using the Internet to get awareness of their products in front of potential clients and then provide support via the Internet. See? you've used one just make your own posts right here at AK.

The last thing I'll point out is that while the percentage of disposable income we enjoy today is higher for many, there's a small percentage of us who are still willing to part with it for 2-channel gear. The fact is, I have to allocate my time appropriately to get the value back out of the stuff I do have.

There many, many more things available to do with my time (and $$) these days besides sit in a dark room and listen to the audio. My son cannot remember when a computer wasn't available for his use much less when you had only 3 channels of nationally broadcasted video......

Cheers,

David

[Spaceboy]

Audiophile products to mean means anything with hifi in mind, even your budget Rotel amps etc, or a Roberts radio, they're all aiming for good sound quality, and it just depends what your budget is as to how much you can spend.

[Feisal K]

Within 25 miles of my house today there is only one guy that is dedicated to 2 channel. The rest are home theater stores that don't even want to talk to an audiophile.



so audio stores are selling sets of 6 or 8 speakers instead of a pair at a time, nowadays.

instead of a 10K amplifier to one or two people, they are selling a ton of accessible amplification below 1K to N households, with 5 speakers AND a subwoofer in each of those households. And equipment is getting better and better

People also don't put up with shops that turn their noses up at them - if someone does there's always the internet.

Maybe the market has changed, and so do businesses to stay alive change with the market. perhaps none of the new fit in with your description of an 'audiophile' but as you say, there's more equipment available now that must be going somewhere - perhaps to non-audiophiles

[Ski Bum]

I think taters original post was focused on manufacturers not retailers.

I've wondered the same thing. You would have thought the number of prospective purchasers for two channel high end systems has dropped, while there are at least as many manufacturers as 20 years ago. I suspect that many of the manufacturers are single individuals or family operations that are making very little money. Also, I suspect that margins have increased (as reflected by price increases that have easily outpaced inflation).

[John B Good]

How can we do it?

MARKUP! :D

[Mike from NYC]

I think taters original post was focused on manufacturers not retailers.

I've wondered the same thing. You would have thought the number of prospective purchasers for two channel high end systems has dropped, while there are at least as many manufacturers as 20 years ago. I suspect that many of the manufacturers are single individuals or family operations that are making very little money. Also, I suspect that margins have increased (as reflected by price increases that have easily outpaced inflation).

I thought the same too when reading the posting.

I've wondered the same thing too. Who's buying all the equipment? Are the 1,321,851,888 or so, Chinese buying all this stuff? Or the 1,129,866,154 or so Indians?

[axnyslie]

The audiophile stores here are all about home theaters now. They have one or two showrooms for audio listening and the rest are all theater setups, and the audio rooms still have big screen TVs behind the setups.

[tommy-thewho]

Most of the big audio companies own several brand names.

i.e. JBL is part of a big company of many brand name speakers.

[taters]

I think taters original post was focused on manufacturers not retailers.

I've wondered the same thing. You would have thought the number of prospective purchasers for two channel high end systems has dropped, while there are at least as many manufacturers as 20 years ago. I suspect that many of the manufacturers are single individuals or family operations that are making very little money. Also, I suspect that margins have increased (as reflected by price increases that have easily outpaced inflation).

I was talking about manufacterers not retailers!

[Glen B]

I would not say the market for high end audio has necessarily shrunk in favor of home theater. Many persons have high-end systems that are set up for both fine multichannel and 2-channel audio reproduction. Take Classé and Parasound as but two examples of high end companies that cater to both. Classé has embraced HT/multichannel sound while at the same time remaining committed to 2-channel. Dealers can enjoy the best of both worlds.

[Six String]

The high end stores in my area are focusing on home theatre equipment and installation. It's getting really hard to find a two channel integrated amp or seperates in town. When my current surround sound receiver bites the dust, I'm going back to two channel. My wife doesn't care about surround sound for movies and I'm not interestd in multi-channel music, so I don't see any point in investing in something I'm not using. This means I may have to go the mail order route to get what I want.

Que sera sera

[Tone]

My question is how do all these firms stay in business. The market has for hi-end audio has been shrinking for the last 20 years. Within 25 miles of my house today there is only one guy that is dedicated to 2 channel.

The answer is ..... "The Internet".

I'm just as likely to buy online as at a local store. And though the hi-end percentage of the market may be shrinking, the population is growing. And more people has access to products via the web. Hi-End market seems to be growing IMO, now that manufactuers have a HUGE new outlet via the web.

[soundQman]

I would not say the market for high end audio has necessarily shrunk in favor of home theater. Many persons have high-end systems that are set up for both fine multichannel and 2-channel audio reproduction. Take Classé and Parasound as but two examples of high end companies that cater to both. Classé has embraced HT/multichannel sound while at the same time remaining committed to 2-channel. Dealers can enjoy the best of both worlds.Quite a few speaker companies have also embraced or integrated both. They have a flagship pair for high-end 2-channel audio and you can augment those with center and rears that are a bit smaller, but match the timbre of the mains. If they didn't do that they'd soon be out of business. I just bought a piece from a high-end dealer this weekend. They like to talk audio with me, because that is their first love and the roots of their business. But they also cater to the Home Theater cutomer because they need to, and they like movies too. What they don't really care for is people coming in asking about portables, iPods, and computer-based stuff. Many folks when they realize a store is about big stuff for a listening or viewing room are not impressed. They think high-tech is about cool gadgetry and myriad functions all stuffed in a very small device or in a wire-free system.

[motorcitydave]

Audiophile products to mean means anything with hifi in mind, even your budget Rotel amps etc, or a Roberts radio, they're all aiming for good sound quality, and it just depends what your budget is as to how much you can spend.

I concur...

[Mike from NYC]

The high end stores in my area are focusing on home theatre equipment and installation.

Que sera sera

I subscribe to Home Theater and a few other publications including TAS, but what I see in the photographs of the HT magazines are basically in wall speaker installations with no - at least to me - interest in reproducing music correctly. Same goes for many HT installers. I rarely ever see a CD player or see any other media other than DVDs in most set ups. Just looking at the photos leads me to believe that sound imaging isn't even a factor.

I see plenty of ads for great stand-alone speakers but almost every HT installation I see pictured eschews speakers of this sort.

[hifisoup]

I grew up in the heyday of high-end audio. When I was a kid there were 15 stores within a 25 mile radius of my house. There was alot of equipment available but nothing like today. There are more Turntables, speakers, electronics and tweaks available today than back then. My question is how do all these firms stay in business. The market has for hi-end audio has been shrinking for the last 20 years. Within 25 miles of my house today there is only one guy that is dedicated to 2 channel. The rest are home theater stores that don't even want to talk to an audiophile.

I

I know some of these high-end manufacturers and if it was not for the European and Asian markets they would simply be out of business. If these high-end companies were relying only on the American two-channel market they would be a fraction of the size they used to be...if in business at all. In addition to the high-end, some of these companies have also entered the home theater business with multi-channel amps, preamps, surround processors, etc. in addition to their high-end business.

[hifisoup]

You are missing my point. If the market for high-end audio is shrinking which it obviously is. And there are alot less stores than there used to be. Who are the selling the products to?

It is shrinking in the USA but not in Europe and Asia.

[Rachael Bee]

I would not say the market for high end audio has necessarily shrunk in favor of home theater.

You wouldn't but I would. Five years ago I had two hi-end dealers with stereo equipment to shop. Now I have none. If I wanna see equipment I'm gonna have to drive to Nashville or Atlanta. Oh, a new HT store has opened in the meanwhile.

I just don't see how many hi-fi brands can survive when they have so few dealers is so few cities. There's a Rotel amp I have my eye on. If I want one I'll have to drive to Nashville or call 'em and order it.

The retailer base to sell products like Thiel, Rotel, and Pro-Ject is retiring or closing down. That's the case here in a smaller city, Knocks-ville.

[B-Diddy]

barely...

Go to CES and you'll really be baffled. Compared to ten years ago (and it was dire then) it's an absolute joke. Most rooms I visited were start-ups. Some goon with a garage putting together waaay overpriced speakers in the hopes of selling one or two pair. Then there were the old mainstays. Magnaplanar, Krell, etc. VERY FEW newer companies that don't suck, ie. DeVore come to mind. Anyone in this biz is in it by the skin of their teeth. So, if you have a local dealer that isn't hawking LOUD TV, support him as he's directly supporting the companies you all covet. You'll be remembered and that "deal" you were looking for on Audiogon will come back ten fold over time.