"Wet" LP Playback?*

I've heard this term used a couple of times in conjunction with playing a record submerged in a fluid that either cleans or fills in light scratches, similar to how a wet gate will fill in scratches in film.

What exactly is this and how is it done? Does it really make any difference?

 

Most guys are against wet playing records as many feel that the liquid enters the stylus through the cantilever and loosens the glue holding it in place.

The solution you use to wet play also evaporates and causes other problems, including not allowing the heated vinyl (from the stylus) to heat and cool as it does from normal 'air' play.

I don't think this is a good idea to do with records or cartridges you really care about.

 

I've seen a few needledrops over the years on Usenet done with wet playing and they always sounded really dull and muffled, no high end at all. Plus, there are the problems Chad just mentioned. Give your records a good cleaning then if needledropping, get yourself a copy of the Clickrepair program.

 

I tried wet playing a long time ago, using a water/Kodak photo-flo solution.
IMO, the very marginal improvement wrought on noisy records is far outweighed by the already mentioned risks. It's a bad idea.

 

It does make an audible difference due to decreased friction between the stylus and groove wall. However, as Chad pointed out, it does involve risk to the cartridge. The sonic benefit may or may not be worth that risk. I lost the stylus to an AT440ML as a result of wet playing, so don't do it with a cartridge you'd miss if it fell apart. A cartridge upgrade would be an easier and risk-free path to better sonics from the groove.

 

Ah, now I am a fan of using a bit o'window cleaner and playing wet. Then playing again to hoick the dirt out. It takes ages. Maybe I should let it dry first. I do a bit of hospital radio and I played the LP edit of Why Worry which sounded pretty bad so I wetted that up and it sounded much better in that state.

 

I've had to use the wet-play method a few times when making needle-drops, and these experiences have taught me:
Use a high-riding cartridge/stylus, such as the Shure Hi-Track.
Before you start, see how water takes to the surface of the type of vinyl you are playing. Several types of vinyl will make the water bead-up and hit your stylus in globs instead of a steady stream, and will make their way into the cartridge.
Use only enough water to maintain a wet surface. You will probably have to add small amounts as the record plays, because the centrifugal force of the record in motion will expell any liquid to the edge and, if enough accumulates, over the edge.
If you add water, do it gently, as the stylus will pick up the sound of the water hitting the vinyl.

 

Wet playing did have quite a following at one time, probably through the 60s and early 70's. The preferred device was marketed by the Swiss Lenco company - it was a fluid filled plastic arm that tracked across the disc, leaving a 'band' of fluid that with practice you could set the playing stylus in the middle of. You needed to wipe the disc off afterwards.

Generally considered not a good idea - at the very least discs needed a really good wet cleaning to make them playable dry again, and at worst (as noted in another thread) permanently damaged due to the stylus really grinding the surface down.

 

The quote below is from Van den Hul's Phono FAQ page. (I've posted this once before)

 

This theory of grinding a stylus down in wet play makes no sense to me. A lubricated surface would result in less friction, and less "grinding down" of the stylus. Wet or dry, any LP or single you play should be cleaned first, and once free of any abrasives, will be no grind on the stylus...unless you use really hard water.

 

I don't think that's what AJ is saying in that quote; he does, rightly, say once wet, always wet - I've no problem with that. In fact I'm sure it was part of the instructions on the Lencoclean device. Anything that settles ' in the bottom' of the groove is actually well away from the stylus (take a look at any micro photographs of record wear and styli actually in grooves..) but anything sticking on the groove walls will of course add to the noise if it remains there for a dry play. Then it will stick to the stylus, adding to the problem.

IMO AJ is only partly correct on the grinding. Intuitively, there must be some degradation due to dirt. But the fact that we can clean the disc after playing it dirty and it plays fine shows that there isn't the complete destruction implied.

This is why we clean records in the first place..

 

For an important project needledrop dry then needledrop wet and throw away the record...cause it has played as best ..it will ever. IMO. I "discovered" wet playing because needle did not skip when wet...

 

I think I've only had a problem after wet play when using water. Window cleaner has not been a problem in that sense. It does how ever soften up the dirt which takes several plays to get out - sometimes well over a dozen for a really dirty record. That said, it does make buying a really dirty and beat up looking 60s bargain a viable option. Once the dirt is carved out they can sound much much better. Generally I play wet once, then dry several times, which the odd re-wettening to soften the deeper dirt. Don't use your favourite stylus just in case cause that stuff can really stick.

 

I wouldn't play my vinyl wet, but do whatever makes you happy.

What I can tell you is research "damped" tonearms. A Moerch (sp?) or Well Tempered tonearm uses Silicon Damping Fluid to try and smooth out rough riding vinyl grooves (or so I think..). This might really be the effect you are looking for without affecting the vinyl surface itself....

My Well Tempered Tonearm sounds sweet and fluid to me, I'd love to try a Moerch someday.....

 

I'm of the dry playing school personally however if you can live with the risks previously mentioned and it works for you, great.

 

For all you wet-playing advocates, read this article: http://www.stefanopasini.it/EMT Gefahr.htm

Summary: wet playing damages records... permanently. Don't do it! :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn:

 

To be fair - it says playing records with ionised water can damage them permanently. It does state that it cannot comment on the use of other liquids. A tale of caution nonetheless.

 

I wonder if the water inside the groove boils for a split second?

 

I am highly skeptical of the conclusions he draws. They don't jibe with my own experiences.

 

Im my experience, playing wet, even once, means that the record will have to be playet wet from then on. If not, it'll start to sound very muddy after a few minutes.

 

That's alright I guess.

It's just a technical bulletin released by one of the greatest makers of broadcast turntables... ever.

 

I see no big contradiction. No one here claims a wet-played record will sound fine played dry afterwards. It will respond to a good proper wet wash cleaning, and nothing in the article says that the record is permanently damaged in any way.

If I had an EMT cartridge (pictured in the referenced article) I wouldn't play anything wet on it either. It runs very close to the disc, and tracks at a fairly high 3g IIRC.

I'm intrigued by the 'leached salts' part of the explanation of noise. While that's an interesting informational article, all scientific value is lost because it's major sources (the 'American investigators' and 'Swiss expert') are not identified so anyone else can read their work.

 

That may be loosend/moistened dirt caking on the stylus

 

I like cake.

 

Buy a decent carbon brush to brush of dust before you play and a soft small paint brush for the stylus after the side is played. The stylus will clean the grooves and collect debris naturally. If your records are that filthy, invest in a wet vac machine.