So I drove 150 miles to audition a Rega today.

[sushimaster]

Marc Phillips, If you're reading this...I took your advice and took a little road trip to audition a turntable that I was interested in purchasing. I live in Houston, Texas. And there are no Rega dealers here. So my fiance and I took a little road trip to Austin, where we met up with Brian at Whetstone Audio (http://www.whetstoneaudio.com/contact.htm).

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/770/001qp3.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5749/002zg6.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3129/003cs0.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/48/004zj7.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5853/005fz6.jpg

Brian is hooking up the Rega P5 for me to listen to.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4338/006nk5.jpg

Whetstone is one of the many weird and neat places to visit in Austin. It's in an obscure part of town however. Brian (the owner), is very friendly and helpful. When my fiance and I dropped in, we were made to feel right at home by him and his audiophile buddy Craig, who seems like he's just hanging out there for the fun of it.

While demo-ing, I was even offered a cold one called Fireman's 4 (http://www.realalebrewing.com/beer_styles.php), which at first I thought was a trick to get me drunk enough to buy something. It was an excellent beer nonetheless.

They really digged my Mullard shirt (http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html).

Okay so here's the story. My Dual CS-508 belt drive turntable with Ortofon Pro cart which I bought from Salvation Army for 10 bucks recently started developing a problem, which I tried to fix unsucessfully and now I killed it. So I been seeking advice from Mr. Marc Phillips aka Vinyl Anachronist, and friends about which TT to buy. Technics 1200 or Rega P1. Marc reccomends I try looking on eBay for a good old used P3.

But before even doing that, I figured the best thing to do is go listen to a Rega in person. So that's where the story of Brian comes in.

I brought with me three lps.
1. Steely Dan - Aja
2. Claude Bolling - Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano
3. Claude Bolling - Concerto for Classic Guitar and Jazz Piano

I was interested in listening to the Rega P1, P3, and P5.

Brian had kindly set up the stock Rega P1 to a pair of Rega R3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm)speakers, and Rega Brio 3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm) integrated trasistor amp. We put on Aja and my immediate impression was not good.
After about a couple of minutes, my fiance and I looked at each other and agreed the sound was alot worse than my Dual, Dynaco system at home.

BTW, I mentioned Steve Hoffman's name to Brian, and he didn't know who he was. :shh: But Craig knew. :D

After listening to a few songs, I got up and walked over to the P1 to see what the hell was going on. I noticed that the ortofon stylus was sitting real low, the plastic base was almost touching the record! Too much down force or a bad cantilever I thought. I told Brian, and he went to look. He said it was fine, and that was normal. That if he's not mistaken, the OM5 has a low profile. I thought to myself, okay if you say so. But that doesnt look right to me. And it's probably why it sounds so bad to my ears. To clarify, it sounded IMO too bright. And Brian likes to crank it up, which was 2x louder than my preferred listening volume, so I had to get up several times and lower the volume on the amp. It also didn't sound very clear, or warm. Which was what I like with my home setup.

I don't know if this was due to the solid state amp, speakers, or cartridge that he was using. So I asked Brian if he could fit the P1 with an Ortofon Super OM20. Unfortunately he said he didn't have any on hand for the demo.

Next up, Rega P3 with a Dynavector DV10x cartridge.
Same setup, same album, Aja. This was much better than the P1. I started taking notes in my notepad at this point. I wrote...more dynamic, sounds cleaner than the P1...but IMO, it still didn't sound as clear and warm as my Dual did in my system (At least that's how I remembered it...or maybe imagined it?) At this point I'm thinking it's because of the Rega amp. And that the P3 would probably sound much better in my tube system at home. Still, I wonder, could I have gotten the P1 to sound almost as good as the P3 if we were using the same DV10x cartridge?

Was it just coincidence that Brian didn't have a OM20 on hand? Could he just be trying to push more sales of the more expensive P3 by using an inferior cartridge on the P1? These are all unfounded speculations of course. And I could very well just be imagining things. But still you have to wonder. I mean Roy Gandy wouldn't be stupid enough to make the P1 sound better than or close to the P3 which cost more than twice as much, thereby undercutting sales of the P3 now would he? Then again, brave/crazy people have been overclocking the Intel Pentium cpu for years now, some more successfuly than others, getting performance that of a higher budget cpu for the price of a lower one. So maybe us tweakers can get a real deal on the P1 with some cheap mods. :shake:

Moving on finally to the P5 with a Dynavector DVX20 cart. System has been changed to Naim integrated amp and Kudos Audio Cardea C10 2-way speakers. Oh my God...that's what I immediately thought when Mr. Claude Bolling and Jean Pierre Rampal were spinning on the heavy not glass, but ceramic platter. I'm thinking, Now this definately sounds on the right level of my tube system at home. Still not as clean, transparent and warm...but the sound is much better than that of the P3 system we just used. More dynamic, I can definately hear separation of the channels and better imaging. Still Brian cranks the volume up too loud for my taste. Still a bit bright perhaps, but I'm guessing it has to be the needle.

Conclusion: Since none of the three systems I listened to used the same cartridge, amp and speakers, there's no way for me to know what factor played the most part in each improvement I heard. Which doesn't really help me. Is it the needle? Is it the turntable? Is it the amp/speakers? Is it the beer kicking in? You see what I mean? You gotta have something as a constant. Secondly, I wont know for sure which TT I like unless it is played thru my system at home. Then and only then would I know how it sounds, and if it's any good or not. Finally, don't believe everything you read or hear either. And never trust a salesman. Ultimately most, not all are trying to make the most money from you. Sure, being honest and truthfull will earn you loyal customers in the future. But how many people do you know actually follow that motto? 1 in every 1000? Use them as a guide, but ultimately believe your own ears and instinct. BTW, the craftsmanship on all the Regas looked fantastic. Solid, rigid, clean design, minimalist, functional.

I still have more research and demo-ing to conduct before I make a decision.
Thanks for listening to my long *** entry.

- Sushimaster

[sushimaster]

Edit: Actually it was more like 300 miles counting the trip back to Houston. I did however stop by a Salvation Army while in Austin, and even though I didn't find another Dual turntable, I did find this for a buck. Enjoy.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8168/007zu8.jpg

[drmoss_ca]

Nice post! It transmitted the thrill of the hunt very well.

I noticed that the ortofon stylus was sitting real low, the plastic base was almost touching the record! Too much down force or a bad cantilever I thought. I told Brian, and he went to look. He said it was fine, and that was normal. That if he's not mistaken, the OM5 has a low profile. I thought to myself, okay if you say so. But that doesnt look right to me. And it's probably why it sounds so bad to my ears. To clarify, it sounded IMO too bright.

Too bright should mean too high a VTA, so that the back of the cartridge would be higher than the front. I abandoned the mat on my P3 to get the sound I wanted (just had to be careful to keep the platter dust free so that dust didn't get impressed into an LP when I tightened the clamp).

Secondly, I wont know for sure which TT I like unless it is played thru my system at home. Then and only then would I know how it sounds, and if it's any good or not.

So true. We get into a comfortable groove of familiar sound from our own systems, and anything different can sound wrong at first. Just like an old pair of comfortable shoes - they may be scuffed, leaky and downright disreputable, but they fit and we keep them around!

Chris

[phish]

good read.

[Dennis Metz]

It's no wonder we have fewer and fewer stores like this every year.

[Gary]

It's tough auditioning components.... especially when you have never heard the rest of the system it's hooked up to!

[Pug]

It's tough auditioning components.... especially when you have never heard the rest of the system it's hooked up to!

It's especially tough when everything changed between the setups.

[beavis]

That Shaded Dog is a nice find for a buck....congrats!

[Plinko]

I dunno...either you're very skeptical or it sounds like you didn't get a long with Brian too well. I had a great experience with him a while ago. He offered to me an in home try and buy on a phono stage when no other dealers near me would do the same. I used to live in Houston and on my next visit to Texas, we'll be stopping by to see him.

I agree and sympathize with your attempts to find a good product. Your experience was probably useless the moment you felt the cartridge was not setup properly. I think Marc Phillips will likely tell you to go to shows or join an audio club to learn about gear (depending on where you live, your committment to audio, or how busy you are, sometimes easier said than done).

[Grant]

Sounds like most salesmen/audiophiles I encounter: they are getting hard of hearing, so they like bright sound, and/or turn everything up loud.

[Ian Lascell]

I've only been to one Rega dealer. Sounds similar to your experience in that things were not really set up too well, cartridge choice was Rega or nothing, everything sounded bright, etc. (Not to mention the dreaded dealer who poo-poo's every brand he doesn't sell... if you encounter this, run away!). In the end I bought the P3 anyways based on word-of-mouth. I'm glad I did because it is a reliable and good sounding table that sounds much better in my own system than it did in the store. I don't have a lot of cartridge experience, but if you get a Rega turntable, I recommend insisting on a different brand of cartridge. My experience with the Elys cartridge is that it is an awful tracker and fairly bright. YMMV.

[TimB]

It will most definatly be influenced by the cartridge (as well as the rest of the systen down the line). My P25 sounds great with a Shure V15VMR on it, fast lith dynamic detailed and very good bass extension. You are correct in that you really need to audition your potential new table in your own system.


Tim

[TONEPUB]

If you are using a 10 dollar table that you got used, chances are any one of the three are going to be a major improvement.

Rather than worrying about all the mods, why not just go for the P3 in the middle with the stock power supply, a decent cartridge, call it a day and just enjoy your music?

Sometimes you guys agonize too much over this stuff....

A nice P3, or a used Scout or Linn will be a huge upgrade from where you are now. All will have their own unique flavor, but you can pick a spot and then build your system around it.

[vinyl anachronist]

I'm glad I could help!

I do think if you make a dealer jump through hoops, you should buy from him...it's just karma. But if this Brian guy didn't treat you right, then maybe it's right to walk away.

But if you want my honest advice, buy the new P3-24, throw on a Dynavector 10X5, and get the Groovetracer subplatter. We have one of these at the TONE mothership, and it is by far the best-sounding Rega I have heard next to the P9. Jeff has an Apheta on it instead of a Dyna, but I'm sure you don't want to put a $1695 cartridge on a $1300 turntable just yet.

Of course I have a buddy who is a Rega dealer, and will treat you right. He's in Southern California, though.

[vinyl anachronist]

Sounds like most salesmen/audiophiles I encounter: they are getting hard of hearing, so they like bright sound, and/or turn everything up loud.

That's funny...I find the opposite to be true. The world is so stressful and noisy and aggravating that more and more people are leaning toward smooth and warm and slightly rolled off.

[JA Fant]

Agreed-
It is really all about the thrill of the hunt! Great post.

[B-Diddy]

[QUOTE=sushimaster;2855963]Marc Phillips, If you're reading this...I took your advice and took a little road trip to audition a turntable that I was interested in purchasing. I live in Houston, Texas. And there are no Rega dealers here. So my fiance and I took a little road trip to Austin, where we met up with Brian at Whetstone Audio (http://www.whetstoneaudio.com/contact.htm).

Whetstone is one of the many weird and neat places to visit in Austin. It's in an obscure part of town however. Brian (the owner), is very friendly and helpful. When my fiance and I dropped in, we were made to feel right at home by him and his audiophile buddy Craig, who seems like he's just hanging out there for the fun of it.

While demo-ing, I was even offered a cold one called Fireman's 4 (http://www.realalebrewing.com/beer_styles.php), which at first I thought was a trick to get me drunk enough to buy something. It was an excellent beer nonetheless.

They really digged my Mullard shirt (http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html).

Okay so here's the story. My Dual CS-508 belt drive turntable with Ortofon Pro cart which I bought from Salvation Army for 10 bucks recently started developing a problem, which I tried to fix unsucessfully and now I killed it. So I been seeking advice from Mr. Marc Phillips aka Vinyl Anachronist, and friends about which TT to buy. Technics 1200 or Rega P1. Marc reccomends I try looking on eBay for a good old used P3.

But before even doing that, I figured the best thing to do is go listen to a Rega in person. So that's where the story of Brian comes in.

I brought with me three lps.
1. Steely Dan - Aja
2. Claude Bolling - Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano
3. Claude Bolling - Concerto for Classic Guitar and Jazz Piano

I was interested in listening to the Rega P1, P3, and P5.

Brian had kindly set up the stock Rega P1 to a pair of Rega R3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm)speakers, and Rega Brio 3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm) integrated trasistor amp. We put on Aja and my immediate impression was not good.
After about a couple of minutes, my fiance and I looked at each other and agreed the sound was alot worse than my Dual, Dynaco system at home.

Solid State is different than tubes, which you're used to. Keep in mind that the Rega P1 is ENTRY LEVEL and at $350 sounds pretty good.

BTW, I mentioned Steve Hoffman's name to Brian, and he didn't know who he was. :shh: But Craig knew. :D

After listening to a few songs, I got up and walked over to the P1 to see what the hell was going on. I noticed that the ortofon stylus was sitting real low, the plastic base was almost touching the record! Too much down force or a bad cantilever I thought. I told Brian, and he went to look. He said it was fine, and that was normal. That if he's not mistaken, the OM5 has a low profile. I thought to myself, okay if you say so. But that doesnt look right to me. And it's probably why it sounds so bad to my ears. To clarify, it sounded IMO too bright. And Brian likes to crank it up, which was 2x louder than my preferred listening volume, so I had to get up several times and lower the volume on the amp. It also didn't sound very clear, or warm. Which was what I like with my home setup.

I do like to RAWK! ;)

I don't know if this was due to the solid state amp, speakers, or cartridge that he was using. So I asked Brian if he could fit the P1 with an Ortofon Super OM20. Unfortunately he said he didn't have any on hand for the demo.

The OM5 comes fitted with the P1. Even if I had an OM20, I would've been reluctant to mount it unless you actually bought it.

Next up, Rega P3 with a Dynavector DV10x cartridge.
Same setup, same album, Aja. This was much better than the P1. I started taking notes in my notepad at this point. I wrote...more dynamic, sounds cleaner than the P1...but IMO, it still didn't sound as clear and warm as my Dual did in my system (At least that's how I remembered it...or maybe imagined it?) At this point I'm thinking it's because of the Rega amp. And that the P3 would probably sound much better in my tube system at home. Still, I wonder, could I have gotten the P1 to sound almost as good as the P3 if we were using the same DV10x cartridge?

Using a DV 10x5 on a P1 would be stupid...

Was it just coincidence that Brian didn't have a OM20 on hand? Could he just be trying to push more sales of the more expensive P3 by using an inferior cartridge on the P1?

oh, you found me out! smoke and mirrors! Nope just a stock P1. P3 is better? Of course it is! I've been selling the P3 / DV 10x5 combo for years. It's a perfect match and a great value.

These are all unfounded speculations of course. And I could very well just be imagining things. But still you have to wonder. I mean Roy Gandy wouldn't be stupid enough to make the P1 sound better than or close to the P3 which cost more than twice as much, thereby undercutting sales of the P3 now would he? Then again, brave/crazy people have been overclocking the Intel Pentium cpu for years now, some more successfuly than others, getting performance that of a higher budget cpu for the price of a lower one. So maybe us tweakers (good god! :help: ) can get a real deal on the P1 with some cheap mods. :shake:

after you waste tons of time and money on stupid mods, you could've bought a P2 or P3...

Moving on finally to the P5 with a Dynavector DVX20 cart. System has been changed to Naim integrated amp and Kudos Audio Cardea C10 2-way speakers. Oh my God...that's what I immediately thought when Mr. Claude Bolling and Jean Pierre Rampal were spinning on the heavy not glass, but ceramic platter. I'm thinking, Now this definately sounds on the right level of my tube system at home. Still not as clean, transparent and warm...but the sound is much better than that of the P3 system we just used. More dynamic, I can definately hear separation of the channels and better imaging. Still Brian cranks the volume up too loud for my taste. Still a bit bright perhaps, but I'm guessing it has to be the needle.

What? huh? :laugh: That's what happens when you invest more into a system (hopefully). That's what I was trying to display.

Conclusion: Since none of the three systems I listened to used the same cartridge, amp and speakers, there's no way for me to know what factor played the most part in each improvement I heard. Which doesn't really help me. Is it the needle? Is it the turntable? Is it the amp/speakers? Is it the beer kicking in? You see what I mean? You gotta have something as a constant. Secondly, I wont know for sure which TT I like unless it is played thru my system at home.

Then buy one and find out.

Then and only then would I know how it sounds, and if it's any good or not. Finally, don't believe everything you read or hear either. And never trust a salesman. Ultimately most, not all are trying to make the most money from you. Sure, being honest and truthfull will earn you loyal customers in the future. But how many people do you know actually follow that motto?

Gee thanks. My reputation is actually quite the opposite seeing as I'm not hawking LOUD TV and bogus tweaks... So I guess I'm 1 in a 1000? cool! I recently found out I was the #1 Rega saleman in the US (unlike self-proclaimed ones on Ebay) Possibly because I do good Demos and people feel like they're making an educated decision after visiting with me.

1 in every 1000? Use them as a guide, but ultimately believe your own ears and instinct. BTW, the craftsmanship on all the Regas looked fantastic. Solid, rigid, clean design, minimalist, functional.

I still have more research and demo-ing to conduct before I make a decision.


Mr Sushimaster. I enjoyed visiting with you and your lovely fiance. I hope you walked away learning something about Rega turntables. I hope you will come back with your Dynaco for a proper A/B. I do feel slightly attacked. I had no idea you were taking pics of my ***. I would've put on something sexier.:D

I welcome all you "audiophile gurus" who hobbled together a Foreplay to visit my shop with an open mind. If you're not obnoxious I may even offer you a beer. Not to get you drunk (as if one would, well... it might) but because that's how I roll. I try to make people RELAX. Then I attempt to teach them something about the business I've been running for the past 14 years. Of course, that doesn't matter because most of you will never buy a thing from a local dealer, but will gleefully waste our time and run us ragged so you can selfishly do a demo and buy it used on Audiogon then brag on these forums about your smokin' deal. Then you wonder why there are fewer and fewer dealers to torture every year.


xox,

B-Diddy

www.whetstoneaudio.com

[Music Emporium]

I understand your position, obviously HIFI dealers want to make money however you should also understand that buying a P5 /p7 or even a P3 is ahuge investment for let's say 90 % of human beings so it's sensible to try to make the most of one's investment., listening to several combinations until you get something that really satisfy you.........

I sincerely think that nobody should buy any HIFI product without listening to it and if possible doing it at home , you don't change HIFI components overnight....

anyway If I ever visit Austin, I'll pay a visit to your store :p

[phish]

another good read.

and welcome to the forum.

[macster]

RE"Of course, that doesn't matter because most of you will never buy a thing from a local dealer, but will gleefully waste our time and run us ragged so you can selfishly do a demo and buy it used on Audiogon then brag on these forums about your smokin' deal. Then you wonder why there are fewer and fewer dealers to torture every year.

xox,

B-Diddy"

Wow! Any way, I now know who to buy my P9 from.


m~

[B-Diddy]

just stating facts Macster. I didn't mean to offend anyone except the obvious geeks I was reaming. Besides, as a California resident I couldn't sell you a P9 as there are several Rega dealers in your state, not that they would do the same...

enough of my bitching though! Just listen to some good music and be nice to your local dealers.

B

[Gary]

Just listen to some good music and be nice to your local dealers.

Lets not all forget the advantages of buying from local dealers! Besides helping them out in the obvious ways they also offer customer support, help set up your TT or show you how to do it, if required, provide advice on components that match the TT (and your system), provide advice and recommendations on potential repair places (I needed a repair recently for a component) or advise you of other stereo / audiophile clubs or networking, they could give you a good trade in allowance if you wanted to trade up (especially if you had bought from them) they could sell yummy vinyl, and all sorts of other stuff.

One place I know of will let me buy a component, take it home for a month and let me bring it back for a full refund or credit note if I'm not happy with it. There are distinct advantages in building a rapport with a dealer! :cool:

[Ian Lascell]

I think it has become increasingly difficult for a brick and mortar dealer to stay in business. The only way to do so is to corner the market on customer service. Going online and calling your potential customer a "geek" certainly doesn't qualify in my book. I would look elsewhere to purchase my Rega gear personally.

[somnar]

Wow, great post! You've managed to encapsulate - in just a few sentences - all the "attitude" that drives most music lovers out of "audiophile" shops.

Well done.:righton:

[QUOTE=sushimaster;2855963]Marc Phillips, If you're reading this...I took your advice and took a little road trip to audition a turntable that I was interested in purchasing. I live in Houston, Texas. And there are no Rega dealers here. So my fiance and I took a little road trip to Austin, where we met up with Brian at Whetstone Audio (http://www.whetstoneaudio.com/contact.htm).

Whetstone is one of the many weird and neat places to visit in Austin. It's in an obscure part of town however. Brian (the owner), is very friendly and helpful. When my fiance and I dropped in, we were made to feel right at home by him and his audiophile buddy Craig, who seems like he's just hanging out there for the fun of it.

While demo-ing, I was even offered a cold one called Fireman's 4 (http://www.realalebrewing.com/beer_styles.php), which at first I thought was a trick to get me drunk enough to buy something. It was an excellent beer nonetheless.

They really digged my Mullard shirt (http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html).

Okay so here's the story. My Dual CS-508 belt drive turntable with Ortofon Pro cart which I bought from Salvation Army for 10 bucks recently started developing a problem, which I tried to fix unsucessfully and now I killed it. So I been seeking advice from Mr. Marc Phillips aka Vinyl Anachronist, and friends about which TT to buy. Technics 1200 or Rega P1. Marc reccomends I try looking on eBay for a good old used P3.

But before even doing that, I figured the best thing to do is go listen to a Rega in person. So that's where the story of Brian comes in.

I brought with me three lps.
1. Steely Dan - Aja
2. Claude Bolling - Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano
3. Claude Bolling - Concerto for Classic Guitar and Jazz Piano

I was interested in listening to the Rega P1, P3, and P5.

Brian had kindly set up the stock Rega P1 to a pair of Rega R3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm)speakers, and Rega Brio 3 (http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm) integrated trasistor amp. We put on Aja and my immediate impression was not good.
After about a couple of minutes, my fiance and I looked at each other and agreed the sound was alot worse than my Dual, Dynaco system at home.

Solid State is different than tubes, which you're used to. Keep in mind that the Rega P1 is ENTRY LEVEL and at $350 sounds pretty good.

BTW, I mentioned Steve Hoffman's name to Brian, and he didn't know who he was. :shh: But Craig knew. :D

After listening to a few songs, I got up and walked over to the P1 to see what the hell was going on. I noticed that the ortofon stylus was sitting real low, the plastic base was almost touching the record! Too much down force or a bad cantilever I thought. I told Brian, and he went to look. He said it was fine, and that was normal. That if he's not mistaken, the OM5 has a low profile. I thought to myself, okay if you say so. But that doesnt look right to me. And it's probably why it sounds so bad to my ears. To clarify, it sounded IMO too bright. And Brian likes to crank it up, which was 2x louder than my preferred listening volume, so I had to get up several times and lower the volume on the amp. It also didn't sound very clear, or warm. Which was what I like with my home setup.

I do like to RAWK! ;)

I don't know if this was due to the solid state amp, speakers, or cartridge that he was using. So I asked Brian if he could fit the P1 with an Ortofon Super OM20. Unfortunately he said he didn't have any on hand for the demo.

The OM5 comes fitted with the P1. Even if I had an OM20, I would've been reluctant to mount it unless you actually bought it.

Next up, Rega P3 with a Dynavector DV10x cartridge.
Same setup, same album, Aja. This was much better than the P1. I started taking notes in my notepad at this point. I wrote...more dynamic, sounds cleaner than the P1...but IMO, it still didn't sound as clear and warm as my Dual did in my system (At least that's how I remembered it...or maybe imagined it?) At this point I'm thinking it's because of the Rega amp. And that the P3 would probably sound much better in my tube system at home. Still, I wonder, could I have gotten the P1 to sound almost as good as the P3 if we were using the same DV10x cartridge?

Using a DV 10x5 on a P1 would be stupid...

Was it just coincidence that Brian didn't have a OM20 on hand? Could he just be trying to push more sales of the more expensive P3 by using an inferior cartridge on the P1?

oh, you found me out! smoke and mirrors! Nope just a stock P1. P3 is better? Of course it is! I've been selling the P3 / DV 10x5 combo for years. It's a perfect match and a great value.

These are all unfounded speculations of course. And I could very well just be imagining things. But still you have to wonder. I mean Roy Gandy wouldn't be stupid enough to make the P1 sound better than or close to the P3 which cost more than twice as much, thereby undercutting sales of the P3 now would he? Then again, brave/crazy people have been overclocking the Intel Pentium cpu for years now, some more successfuly than others, getting performance that of a higher budget cpu for the price of a lower one. So maybe us tweakers (good god! :help: ) can get a real deal on the P1 with some cheap mods. :shake:

after you waste tons of time and money on stupid mods, you could've bought a P2 or P3...

Moving on finally to the P5 with a Dynavector DVX20 cart. System has been changed to Naim integrated amp and Kudos Audio Cardea C10 2-way speakers. Oh my God...that's what I immediately thought when Mr. Claude Bolling and Jean Pierre Rampal were spinning on the heavy not glass, but ceramic platter. I'm thinking, Now this definately sounds on the right level of my tube system at home. Still not as clean, transparent and warm...but the sound is much better than that of the P3 system we just used. More dynamic, I can definately hear separation of the channels and better imaging. Still Brian cranks the volume up too loud for my taste. Still a bit bright perhaps, but I'm guessing it has to be the needle.

What? huh? :laugh: That's what happens when you invest more into a system (hopefully). That's what I was trying to display.

Conclusion: Since none of the three systems I listened to used the same cartridge, amp and speakers, there's no way for me to know what factor played the most part in each improvement I heard. Which doesn't really help me. Is it the needle? Is it the turntable? Is it the amp/speakers? Is it the beer kicking in? You see what I mean? You gotta have something as a constant. Secondly, I wont know for sure which TT I like unless it is played thru my system at home.

Then buy one and find out.

Then and only then would I know how it sounds, and if it's any good or not. Finally, don't believe everything you read or hear either. And never trust a salesman. Ultimately most, not all are trying to make the most money from you. Sure, being honest and truthfull will earn you loyal customers in the future. But how many people do you know actually follow that motto?

Gee thanks. My reputation is actually quite the opposite seeing as I'm not hawking LOUD TV and bogus tweaks... So I guess I'm 1 in a 1000? cool! I recently found out I was the #1 Rega saleman in the US (unlike self-proclaimed ones on Ebay) Possibly because I do good Demos and people feel like they're making an educated decision after visiting with me.

1 in every 1000? Use them as a guide, but ultimately believe your own ears and instinct. BTW, the craftsmanship on all the Regas looked fantastic. Solid, rigid, clean design, minimalist, functional.

I still have more research and demo-ing to conduct before I make a decision.


Mr Sushimaster. I enjoyed visiting with you and your lovely fiance. I hope you walked away learning something about Rega turntables. I hope you will come back with your Dynaco for a proper A/B. I do feel slightly attacked. I had no idea you were taking pics of my ***. I would've put on something sexier.:D

I welcome all you "audiophile gurus" who hobbled together a Foreplay to visit my shop with an open mind. If you're not obnoxious I may even offer you a beer. Not to get you drunk (as if one would, well... it might) but because that's how I roll. I try to make people RELAX. Then I attempt to teach them something about the business I've been running for the past 14 years. Of course, that doesn't matter because most of you will never buy a thing from a local dealer, but will gleefully waste our time and run us ragged so you can selfishly do a demo and buy it used on Audiogon then brag on these forums about your smokin' deal. Then you wonder why there are fewer and fewer dealers to torture every year.


xox,

B-Diddy

www.whetstoneaudio.com

[TONEPUB]

Well, I have to agree with the boy. This is what makes dealers grumpy. What so many audiophiles realize is that SOMEBODY has to buy some gear so that they can keep the doors open, the lights on and pay the help. (and maintain an inventory, etc. etc.)

Even if I wasn't in the industry, I wouldn't expect a dealer to install multiple cartridges on a budget table so I could spend hours auditioning.

My experience with audio dealers over the years is that you have to spread the love around. Don't ask em to bend over backwards until you've spent a few bucks. You'll find then that most of them are more than happy to go the extra mile.

And before you label me elitist, would you work for free at your place of employment? If your boss told you that you were working all day for nothing, you'd start to get edgy too.

We all love music and hifi, but these guys all have families to feed. You need to show a little love! If the dealers go away, there isn't going to be anywhere to see this stuff...

I gotta cast my lot with the dealer on this one!