Phonostage recommendations needed

[mcow1]

WIth the new turnatable I need a phonostage if I want to use a MC cart or even a MM with an output lower than 3 mV. I currently don't have a preamp so it has to be able to connect directly to the receiver/amp. Everything right now is SS, is it worth going tube with a phonostage? I need (kind of) to stay under $800 or so with this. I really don't know much about these, is there much difference between a $329 Creek and a $700 Rega or a tube EAR for $900.
Thanks for any input.

[NealW]

Try looking at old audio research preamps. mine is an SP6 and it blew away the EAR 834 that i had. you will have to check up on whether there is enough gain for low output MC's i haven't needed to worry about that. anyway that way you get a fantastic preamp as well.

i believe the SP 10 Mk II may have one of the greatest phono stages of all time (by all accounts).

[tony2v]

Check out Antique Sound Labs for their tube phono preamp only $249. I don't if it can handle <3mv.
http://www.divertech.com/aslminiphono.htm

[BradOlson]

Another option to go is a DJ mixer which has the phono preamp needed. It works perfect for me as I have a DJ turntable and a minisystem with an AUX jack.

[michael w]

Hi mcow1,

NealW's suggestion on old ARC preamps is a good one.
Most have enough gain to handle cartridges with medium output up.
I used an SP-8 with a Koetsu Rosewood, output 0.4 mV with no problems.

But the better preamps (SP-8, SP-9, SP-10) may be out of your budget range.

And IMO these older ARC's are far more colored than most modern phono stages.

For $800 there are plenty of phono stage options.

More details of your turntable/cartridge/amp may solicit less generalised suggestions.



cheerio

[aashton]

I was just about to suggest a Tom Evans Microgroove+ but noticed that that the price for some reason shoots up dramatically as it crosses the Atlantic :( I got my EAR 834P for an awfully lot less than retail and was very happy messing around with it for a while - bought a number of set of tubes (valves) for it :D So it has tinkering appeal above and beyond the sonics. :)

All the best and happy listening :) - Andrew

[mcow1]

Originally posted by michael w
Hi mcow1,


For $800 there are plenty of phono stage options.

More details of your turntable/cartridge/amp may solicit less generalised suggestions.



cheerio
Turntable will be a VPI Aries Scout, cartridge I still haven't decided between a Dynavector (10x4 or 20x) or a Shure V15 VxMR. Of course one is MM ane is MC so I really need recommendations for both or one like the EAR or Grado that can switch between. The amp will be the next thing swapped out.

[Vinyl-Addict]

Mike, I have owned the EAR834, now I have the EAR864 preamp which has the same phono section as the 834. I have always been happy with its performance but have found that rolling tubes will deliver different results.

Can you audition any phono stages at home with your gear? That is how I decide on my audio purchases, always in home audition if you can or get a 30 day return/exchange policy. I think you would be happy with the 834P, give it a listen if you can. It is a very popular unit so you could sell it if you weren't satisfied at minimal loss. :)

[Dean De Furia]

Any 80's Conrad Johnson tube preamp has great phono sections. Try a PV-5 or 8 for about $3-500.

[Ronald]

I have a Monolithic Sound PS-1 phono stage and HC-1 power supply. The list price for the combo is $399 for the PS-1 and $259 for the HC-1. You can probably negotiate a favorable deal with a reseller. While the PS-1 itself is good, one really needs to have the HC-1 for an optimal setup.

I am satisfied with the sound and I would recommend a listen if you want to stay in your price range. I think it does a great job of playing the Classic Recs 45 rpm of "Bridge Over Troubled Water", a veritable torture test of any LP playback system.


There are four gain settings and the lowest should meet your MM cartridge needs. The highest gain setting of 53 dB doesn't quite provide enough oomph for my Monster AG 1000 (0.2 mV), so I added a Sowter transformer for about 20 dB of gain. I also reduced the gain of the PS-1 to the penultimate setting, which is about 43 or 45 dB.


For what it's worth, I prefer to use a step up transformer for MC cartridges coupled with a lower active gain setting on the phono stage. While step up transformers are mighty pricey, the costs of the internal transformer "cans" themselves are not bad. If you are willing to experiment, you can construct a transformer box without too much stress. Sowter and Jensen (not the Harman Int'l conglomerate) sell a variety of MC step up "cans" you can use to assemble the final product. Jensen transformers are actually used in the phono stages of some high end preamps.

The reason I prefer a lower active gain setting is that when you increase gain, you decrease signal to noise and let in spurious EMF related noises such as radio frequencies, EMF from light switches etc. The transformer will increase gain and reject noise although there will some distortion, theoretically. I have listened with and without the transformer and don't note any detrimental results with the transformer in place. Without the transformer and having the PS-1 on the highest gain setting does allow in some noise.

BTW, my rig is a VPI HW-19 MkIII/SME 309/SAMA/PLC2/Monster AG. The Scout is a good choice. I have had my VPI for 11 years and have had no problems. The MM cartridge choice is a safe one. My own experience with MCs is you need to listen to a number of them and decide which sounds best to you. Another cartridge you might want to consider is Audio Technica AT 440 ML. I like the sound of the 440 (less bright) over the V15 (a little zippy) and the AT costs about $100.00.

[mcow1]

Originally posted by Ronald
I
BTW, my rig is a VPI HW-19 MkIII/SME 309/SAMA/PLC2/Monster AG. The Scout is a good choice. I have had my VPI for 11 years and have had no problems. The MM cartridge choice is a safe one. My own experience with MCs is you need to listen to a number of them and decide which sounds best to you. Another cartridge you might want to consider is Audio Technica AT 440 ML. I like the sound of the 440 (less bright) over the V15 (a little zippy) and the AT costs about $100.00.

Ronald,
How do you like that setup I have a chance at a HW-19jr with a new SME 309 arm for 1,200 total. I've been trying to get an opinion on that arm but no takers so far.
Thanks

[mikelakers]

Originally posted by mcow1


Ronald,
How do you like that setup I have a chance at a HW-19jr with a new SME 309 arm for 1,200 total. I've been trying to get an opinion on that arm but no takers so far.
Thanks

My choice would be Aries Scout with JMW-9 tonearm(isolated motor, thicker platter and better tonearm). If you need a MC cartridge may I suggest: Benz Micro Glider(approximately $600 from audio dealer).

[mcow1]

Originally posted by mikelakers


My choice would be Aries Scout with JMW-9 tonearm(isolated motor, thicker platter and better tonearm). If you need a MC cartridge may I suggest: Benz Micro Glider(approximately $600 from audio dealer).
Thanks, that's what I was thinking but I wanted a second opinion. If I go with an MC cart it has to be a high output unless I pick up a phonostage. (the original purpose of this thread as I know nothing about them at all)

[Todd Fredericks]

I'm very happy with my Acoustech PH-1. It's solid state yet does sound very nice and real. I think it enjoys Hoffman/Grey discs very much...

Todd

P.S. I brought it used a couple of years ago for $700...

[mikelakers]

Originally posted by mcow1

Thanks, that's what I was thinking but I wanted a second opinion. If I go with an MC cart it has to be a high output unless I pick up a phonostage. (the original purpose of this thread as I know nothing about them at all)

Benz Glider does have a high output cartridge(2.5mv output) but if you are willing to spend a little more, go with a phono stage and a low output MC which will give you better results.

I use Conrad Johnson PV11 preamp with build-in phono stage that has enough gain to take a Benz Glider mid output cartridge(0.8mv) but not the low output(0.35mv). I do plan to upgrade my preamp in the near future to a line stage and a separate phono stage.

[duff138]

Originally posted by tony2v
Check out Antique Sound Labs for their tube phono preamp only $249. I don't if it can handle <3mv.
http://www.divertech.com/aslminiphono.htm


My brother-in-law ordered one of these. Unfortunately he had it repackaged and sent back before I could get over his house to hear it. Apparently it was picking up lots of external noise. I guess the tube suffered from "microphonics", as he put his hand closer to the tube or walked by it noise came through the speaker. Another buyer described similar problem on harmonic discord also.

[duff138]

Monolithic sound makes a great phono amp (plently of flexible so works with most cart). Used on Audiogon for $300, used power supply can be found for around $200 but necessary.
Also CIAudio (Channel Island Audio) new phono amp just released. Dusty Vawter (owner of CIAudio) worked at monolitihic sound before he started CIAudio. Directly from his site it's $300, but check out Audioweb. I think the dealer is Crane, you can get a better price. This too like the monolithic is very flexible.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by duff138
Monolithic sound makes a great phono amp (plently of flexible so works with most cart). Used on Audiogon for $300, used power supply can be found for around $200 but necessary.

I've heard conflicting reports on how necessary the HC-1 power-supply upgrade is. I use the Monolithic PS-1 phono preamp by itself, and it sounds really fine to me ... though at some point I may need to give the HC-1 a try to see if/how it improves things for me in my system.

[John Moschella]

I want to add to the comments about Audio Research. I owned a SP-9 for many years and eventually evaluated the PH3 phono pre-amp. I plugged the output of the PH3 directly into the SP9 so I had a chance to compare the phono stages. I liked the PH3 quite a bit better. Lower noise and more transparent. You can probably get a used PH3 for the same price as a used SP9 in good shape. So I would say that if you don't need the full pre-amp and decide to go with Audio Research get the PH3.

I also have a medium output Glider that works just fine with the PH3.

[duff138]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka


I've heard conflicting reports on how necessary the HC-1 power-supply upgrade is. I use the Monolithic PS-1 phono preamp by itself, and it sounds really fine to me ... though at some point I may need to give the HC-1 a try to see if/how it improves things for me in my system.

true. I could definitely live with the monolithic sound phono amp by itself.

[SVL]

If you can get a Trichord (Michell) Dino for a sensible price, you may want to give it a listen. That thing is very versatile and can accommodate a wide range of cartridge outputs by using various combinations of its little switches;).

It sounds good with a Michell TT... cannot vouch for any other combinations.

[Vinyl-Addict]

I was given the Dino as a loaner while waiting for my EAR 864 preamp, I was not impressed.