I didn't like the Sonus Faber Elipsa! Well, maybe...

[ec461]

So I went to our local Palo Alto Magnolia Audio/Video showroom with my parents the other day on a random whim, just to see what they had, and ended up listening to the CD layer of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD on their pair of Sonus Faber Elipsa speakers.

Well, guess what? None of us liked them. :shake: They were ok - but nothing great. The speakers were being powered by McIntosh 501 monoblocks. I didn't bother checking what player or interconnects they were using, since it seemed obvious that it would be good quality stuff. I mean, this is a $21,000 speaker!

Now all of us know this album inside out, but for some reason it didn't sound particularly compelling on these speakers. It wasn't jaw dropping or revealing in the least. The bass seemed poor and the midrange seemed a bit too laid back. I also thought that they sounded somewhat sterile.

Anyway, not having heard Dark Side of the Moon on other high-end speakers, I ask of you, was my unexciting experience due to the recording/mastering quality of the CD? The only other reference point that I have for high/mid-end speakers are the B&W 604s that we auditioned. All of us really liked those - but it's a very unfair comparison because I only took Steve's stuff to audition that (Joni's Blue and the Eagles' Hotel California DCCs). Of course, the B&Ws was a whole different setup...powered by a McIntosh integrated amp (don't remember the model), Monster interconnects, etc. So what say you? :)

[TimB]

The cd layer of the hybrid SACD of DSOTM is not very good. Compressed and sounds dull to me. Try some thing a bit better mastered like the SACD stereo layer or some disc's you like by Steve. The SOnus Faber speakers should really bring some sort of emotion out, you may like them or not, but still....

[albertoderoma]

...
Now all of us know this album inside out, but for some reason it didn't sound particularly compelling on these speakers. It wasn't jaw dropping or revealing in the least.
...

I know exactly what you mean. You ears are not deceiving you.

BUT ...

Over the years, and after owning many different brands and components I've learned a number of valuable lessons about this fun hobby of ours. One of those lessons is that "compelling" and "exciting" sound that impresses during a brief audition does not necessarily translate into long-term listening enjoyment.

It took me a few years and several tries before I realized that for me hyper-resolving, jaw-dropping, last-bit-of-detail-retrieving, equipment resulted in shorter listening sessions. The more expensive and "audiophile" my system became, the less I listened. I jumped up and down for the first 5 minutes thinking how great everything sounded and then turned it off because I felt like giving my ears a rest.

I was very puzzled because whenever I felt like listening to music I usually turned to my vintage system (turntable, Fisher 400 receiver, Tannoys) instead of my big-$ main system.

After a lot of thinking and reading I realized that I was experiencing listening fatigue. A very real thing and some brands, components (e.g. metal tweeters), don't agree with me. Typically those are components that make my jaw drop when I auditioned them.

These days I am using McIntosh electronics and Sonus Faber speakers and I can't wait to get home and listen to music. I listen for hours, and I hate having to stop. The exact opposite of my previous experience.

I know that the following is a gross over-generalization and simplification, and it's my subjective opinion - so don't flame me.

Some brands (e.g. Krell, Mark Levinson, B&W, Wilson) are amazing to audition. The speed, clarity, detail, etc. is awesome, but they are more fatiguing and less forgiving with inferior recordings.

Just like a very bright light will help you see better and show more detail but after a while might hurt your eyes and give you a headache.

Other brands (e.g. McIntosh, Sonus Faber) don't really jump at you at first sight (first hearing), but they are very relaxing, musical, and non-fatiguing.

Again, this is a very personal and subjective observation, but I know I am not the only one who has reached this conclusion. If I look at my audiophile friends, I notice a very clear trend between the hi-fi-ness of their system and the time they spend listening. They barely turn their systems on, and then just for 20-30 minutes, swapping CDs/LPs all the time.

Another analogy is that a woman who might be tremendous fun on a date or two, might not be the kind of woman you want to marry and settle down with.

In summary, I believe that you heard right, but I strongly urge you to think about what I've heard about short-term impression and long-term listening pleasure.

Alberto

[Spin Doctor]

Very insightful post.

[albertoderoma]

Very insightful post.

Thanks, and I love the Lyle/Pat album you have as your avatar. Thank you for reminding me of it, I'll take it down and play right now :-).

Alberto

[NMyTree]

I know exactly what you mean. You ears are not deceiving you.

BUT ...

Over the years, and after owning many different brands and components I've learned a number of valuable lessons about this fun hobby of ours. One of those lessons is that "compelling" and "exciting" sound that impresses during a brief audition does not necessarily translate into long-term listening enjoyment.

It took me a few years and several tries before I realized that for me hyper-resolving, jaw-dropping, last-bit-of-detail-retrieving, equipment resulted in shorter listening sessions. The more expensive and "audiophile" my system became, the less I listened. I jumped up and down for the first 5 minutes thinking how great everything sounded and then turned it off because I felt like giving my ears a rest.

I was very puzzled because whenever I felt like listening to music I usually turned to my vintage system (turntable, Fisher 400 receiver, Tannoys) instead of my big-$ main system.

After a lot of thinking and reading I realized that I was experiencing listening fatigue. A very real thing and some brands, components (e.g. metal tweeters), don't agree with me. Typically those are components that make my jaw drop when I auditioned them.

These days I am using McIntosh electronics and Sonus Faber speakers and I can't wait to get home and listen to music. I listen for hours, and I hate having to stop. The exact opposite of my previous experience.

I know that the following is a gross over-generalization and simplification, and it's my subjective opinion - so don't flame me.

Some brands (e.g. Krell, Mark Levinson, B&W, Wilson) are amazing to audition. The speed, clarity, detail, etc. is awesome, but they are more fatiguing and less forgiving with inferior recordings.

Just like a very bright light will help you see better and show more detail but after a while might hurt your eyes and give you a headache.

Other brands (e.g. McIntosh, Sonus Faber) don't really jump at you at first sight (first hearing), but they are very relaxing, musical, and non-fatiguing.

Again, this is a very personal and subjective observation, but I know I am not the only one who has reached this conclusion. If I look at my audiophile friends, I notice a very clear trend between the hi-fi-ness of their system and the time they spend listening. They barely turn their systems on, and then just for 20-30 minutes, swapping CDs/LPs all the time.

Another analogy is that a woman who might be tremendous fun on a date or two, might not be the kind of woman you want to marry and settle down with.

In summary, I believe that you heard right, but I strongly urge you to think about what I've heard about short-term impression and long-term listening pleasure.

Alberto


I agree completely. I've had the same experience over the last several years.

That's why I prefer and love my Wharfedale Opus 2 speakers and my Castle Conway 3; over many more expensive, exciting and prestigious brands of speakers and gear.

That's why I'm also saving to add some McIntosh gear to my system.

McIntosh and Wharfedale Opus 2 are a match made in musical heaven.

Haven't tried McIntosh through my Castles....yet.

[Russ]

Over the years...

Very well said and I agree with you.

Again, this is a very personal and subjective observation, but I know I am not the only one who has reached this conclusion.

I'm glad you qualified your statement with this. Hopefully the thread won't devolve into the predictable elitist responses.

[Jay F]

I was very puzzled because whenever I felt like listening to music I usually turned to my vintage system (turntable, Fisher 400 receiver, Tannoys) instead of my big-$ main system.

After a lot of thinking and reading I realized that I was experiencing listening fatigue. A very real thing and some brands, components (e.g. metal tweeters), don't agree with me. Typically those are components that make my jaw drop when I auditioned them.

These days I am using McIntosh electronics and Sonus Faber speakers and I can't wait to get home and listen to music. I listen for hours, and I hate having to stop. The exact opposite of my previous experience.

Some brands (e.g. Krell, Mark Levinson, B&W, Wilson) are amazing to audition. The speed, clarity, detail, etc. is awesome, but they are more fatiguing and less forgiving with inferior recordings.

Just like a very bright light will help you see better and show more detail but after a while might hurt your eyes and give you a headache.

Other brands (e.g. McIntosh, Sonus Faber) don't really jump at you at first sight (first hearing), but they are very relaxing, musical, and non-fatiguing.


Another "me, too." My experience listening to CDs over the B&W speakers I liked so much in the store is what led me back to listening to records, though, so it was not a bad thing in the long run. Now I have Paradigm Studio speakers. I'd like to have Sonus Fabers someday. The ones I want cost around $5,000, though, more than I can/would spend.

[Toka]

Over the years, and after owning many different brands and components I've learned a number of valuable lessons about this fun hobby of ours. One of those lessons is that "compelling" and "exciting" sound that impresses during a brief audition does not necessarily translate into long-term listening enjoyment.


I'm right with you on that one too! :righton:

[LeeS]

I'm puzzled by this thread since Sonus Faber makes some of the most musical speakers to my ears. I wonder if there was a setup and component matching problem here. I have not heard the Elipsas but I have heard most of the line and I've never heard a bad one.

[NMyTree]

I've only heard the Sonus Faber Cremona and Grand Piano Domus.

I very much enjoyed those speakers. It's likely that sometime over the next year or two, I will buy a pair of one of those two models. Probably the Sonus Faber Cremona. They are some of the less expensive speakers, from the Sonus Faber floorstanders line.

If do buy one of those, I will be keeping my Wharfedale Opus 2 and Castle Conway 3......in my other two systems.

[vinyl anachronist]

Were you able to listen to the same system with a different set of speakers, so that you could determine it was the speakers you didn't like?

[albertoderoma]

I'm puzzled by this thread since Sonus Faber makes some of the most musical speakers to my ears. I wonder if there was a setup and component matching problem here. I have not heard the Elipsas but I have heard most of the line and I've never heard a bad one.

I don't think there was a set-up or component matching problem (perhaps an issue with the material used as someone else pointed out.) I heard the very same set-up, in the very same store, and it sounded great to me (as it should for a $35K-40K system - $20K for Ellipsa, $10k for MC501s, $3500 for MCD201, + cables, etc.) but not singificantly better than my more modest MCD201/C220/MC252/Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor set-up (I have the benefit of dedicated line, RGPC, etc.)

If anything McIntosh and Sonus Faber is a great component match. I really think that it has to do with the "not-in-your-face" or, as the OP described it, "not jaw dropping sound" that one might expect from a $40K "audiophile" system.

Alberto

[Russ]

I'm puzzled by this thread since Sonus Faber makes some of the most musical speakers to my ears.

You're right Lee. I should have said I agree with the "theme" of his post. My experience with SF is limited, I'm in no way qualified to opine on their performance. For the record, I've never heard anything but accolades regarding them.

[dwmann]

I think that mostly what you didn't like was the CD layer of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD. The mastering is TERRIBLE. I don't think ANYONE could evaluate a system using that disc. I'm running MC501s into Vienna Acoustics top-of-the-line Mahlers, and I don't like the sound of the CD layer of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD on my system, either, although I often use the MFSL or the UK Harvest to demo the system for my friends.

If you want to know what the SFs really sound like, listen again with a favorite disc. I haven't heard the Elipsas, but most SF speakers are a very good match for McIntosh electronics, and present a VERY smooth and musical listening experience.

[ec461]

I think that mostly what you didn't like was the CD layer of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD. The mastering is TERRIBLE. I don't think ANYONE could evaluate a system using that disc. I'm running MC501s into Vienna Acoustics top-of-the-line Mahlers, and I don't like the sound of the CD layer of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD on my system, either, although I often use the MFSL or the UK Harvest to demo the system for my friends.

If you want to know what the SFs really sound like, listen again with a favorite disc. I haven't heard the Elipsas, but most SF speakers are a very good match for McIntosh electronics, and present a VERY smooth and musical listening experience.Yeah, I think I'll go back and try some better discs...

[vinyl anachronist]

Honestly, I'll tell you right now that it's not the speakers you didn't like.

[LeeS]

Honestly, I'll tell you right now that it's not the speakers you didn't like.

First movies, now we are agreeing on audio matters as well?

Are you feeling well Marc? :D

[Mike in OR]

I'm puzzled by this thread since Sonus Faber makes some of the most musical speakers to my ears. I wonder if there was a setup and component matching problem here. I have not heard the Elipsas but I have heard most of the line and I've never heard a bad one.

My 2 cents worth on this subject is synergy....synergy....synergy. Without it some of the nicest speakers currently manufactured will not be showing their true colors. From my personal experience with them on several different occassions have been very positive. If I had a larger room, those would be on my short list as they say. :D

[vinyl anachronist]

The best way to tell would be to go back to that store and see if they still have that specific set-up on the floor. If it was as bad as the OP said, they've probably moved things around. Who knows...maybe the speakers weren't properly broken in!

[visprashyana]

I'm puzzled by this thread since Sonus Faber makes some of the most musical speakers to my ears. I wonder if there was a setup and component matching problem here. I have not heard the Elipsas but I have heard most of the line and I've never heard a bad one.

The components actually match pretty well and I think that his description is very real to him and to others. He heard some pretty warm/musical speakers and they didn't grab him. I think the others are correct that you eventually learn that bright is also bad because you get bored with that flavor also. You may learn to like the warmer sound, but it doesn't initially grab someone in the same way as a very detailed system.

[LeeS]

The components actually match pretty well and I think that his description is very real to him and to others. He heard some pretty warm/musical speakers and they didn't grab him. I think the others are correct that you eventually learn that bright is also bad because you get bored with that flavor also. You may learn to like the warmer sound, but it doesn't initially grab someone in the same way as a very detailed system.

I consider most Sonus Faber speakers more neutral than warm...maybe slightly warm.

[Vinyl-Addict]

I consider most Sonus Faber speakers more neutral than warm...maybe slightly warm.

Having heard the Stradivari Homage, Amati Homage, Cremona, Cremona Auditor, Grand Piano, probably missed a couple, however I would say that the Sonus Faber flavour is definitely not neutral.
The upper priced models are less coloured than the monitors, leaning more toward an emphasis in the upper midrange, whereas the monitors and Grand Piano series tend to be more midbass emphasis. I like the Sonus Faber "sound" but they tend to be a touch on the bright side for me. I think they changed the brand of tweeter they were using. They are beautiful to look at though.:)

[LeeS]

Huh, I don't hear the brightness on Sonus Faber.

[Vinyl-Addict]

Huh, I don't hear the brightness on Sonus Faber.

In the rooms I listened to them, I did. This is just my opinion. Different room, electronics, front end, YMMV. :)