Tips/Tricks to recording bass guitar?

[I Am The Lolrus]

I am DI'ing a rick 4001 and although sometimes it sounds great, I am finding I need to do a few things to clean it up so to speak. The signal coming in is strong, but there is some hiss from the treble pickups, and because I am not a good player I get a slight twang after the stroke of each note on the lowest string- It isn't something that is curable without playing softer, so would some sort of gate setup help this out? Would love to know how anybody familiar with doing this does it right. Thanks!

[Tim S]

You're not going to like this answer, but from your description it sounds like the main problem is in the playing technique.

I can't imagine any kind of gate being beneficial for a bass in any way - someone please do correct me on this if you have some specialized technique that works.

Nothing you can do about hiss from a pickup without affecting the basic sound in a negative way, imo.

I would ask this: are the things you are hearing that bother you actually REALLY apparent when you listen to the entire mix? You may find that it isn't nearly as bad as you think once all the other instruments are mixed with it.

[GT40sc]

Do you have to go direct?

Even a small amp will do a lot to smooth out the sound...just use the direct to add a little definition in the upper harmonic around 800-1600 Hz...make your laptop speakers happy.

In my experience, the Rick bass can sometimes be difficult to record well...sort of a "naturally dirty" tone....I say let it be.

Tim makes several good points in the post above...I agree that you may find the part working fine in the mix.

But if you still feel like you have to roll off some hiss on the bass track, aim high... :D Start at about 8 or 10k and see how it sounds. Much below about 4k will really begin to hurt your bass tone...

hth,

Steve

[turniton1181]

I'd agree with Tim for the most part here. The main idea being that the source is the best place to start fixing the problem (the player and the instrument). Work on technique, tone on the bass, and make sure all the electronics are in good working order. Crap in = crap out. No gate, plugin, pre-amp, or magic box in the world will be able to fix a bad source.

The hiss you're hearing could also be related to parts of the chain post-bass. Make sure you have a good-quality cable and make sure your DI jack is capable of amplifying an instrument-level signal (an impedance mismatch here can make for a wretched noise-floor, hiss, and other unwanted artifcats).

And also - if you are not offended by the end result when it's heard with a full mix, then it could be a moot point. I've heard plenty of bass tracks that sound stellar in a mix, but sound like garbage when soloed. It's also okay to roll off some highs as long as it doesn't affect the tone you're going for.

What recording interface/mixer/DI box are you using?

[I Am The Lolrus]

thanks for the suggestions- the rick is dirty, and I love it- The DI tone is great, I don't think going through another would be worth it, so I guess technique has to be fixed. A thought- maybe a bad solder point internally could be causing the hiss? Otherwise, the gating was just an idea to help with poor technique- If I gate it leaving it mostly there, throw a slight reverb to it, it sounds fairly natural (When things aren't fast), but when things speed up it just doesn't work anymore. I guess it would be burried in the mix anyway, maybe it will be let be :)

[MichaelR]

You could try a different DI, or combining the DI and the amp miked up - just make sure you can line the two signals up someway to minimise phase cancellation. Either delay the DI by ear or line up in a DAW


Michael

[Tim S]

just make sure you can line the two signals up someway to minimise phase cancellation.

First time I have ever heard of this being a problem. I've even done a DI along with two different mic's on two different bass cab's and still never had any issues - matter of fact, one of the best tones I ever got.

No disrespect meant, I just have never heard of this. Anybody?

[ROLO46]

Play fewer notes..

Or get a proper bass player

Technology shouldn't fix everything.

Talent is usefull

[Koptapad]

Maybe the twang sound is ok. I've heard of people who close mic the fretboard on an electric bass just to get the finger and fret sounds. It separates you from the keyboard bass player.

[bdiament]

First time I have ever heard of this being a problem. I've even done a DI along with two different mic's on two different bass cab's and still never had any issues - matter of fact, one of the best tones I ever got.

No disrespect meant, I just have never heard of this. Anybody?

Hi Tim,

Depending on how far from the cabinet the mic is, there could be a delay from the mic feed relative to the direct inject. Some may find this a pleasant alteration of the tone and others may prefer lining them up, which is easy in the digital world.

In most situations however, I see folks putting the mic within a foot of the cabinet so the delay will be on the order of only a millisecond. If the mic is backed up to get more of the sound of the bass amp, it could be an issue but it is very rare to see an engineer back up that mic.

Fortunately for me, I never enounter this because I don't mic individual instruments or amps anymore. And I never use DI, even for synths.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

[Tim S]

Thanks Barry! I got to thinking and this occurred to me, too. I always backed the mic's off a little from the speakers, but rarely more than about 18" - I wanted to have at least a little "air moving around."

You are right to note that some of the phase cancellation that might occur from more distant miking could actually impart a pleasant sound to the overall tone.
(Oh Hell, like I need to tell Barry Diament that he's right......sheeesh, lol)

[bdiament]

Thanks Barry! I got to thinking and this occurred to me, too. I always backed the mic's off a little from the speakers, but rarely more than about 18" - I wanted to have at least a little "air moving around."

You are right to note that some of the phase cancellation that might occur from more distant miking could actually impart a pleasant sound to the overall tone.
(Oh Hell, like I need to tell Barry Diament that he's right......sheeesh, lol)

Hi Tim,

I'd like to think I can learn as much as the next fellow, so if you can confirm something I've said, that's cool. ;-}

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

[Lownote30]

I always record with A tube DI of some sort. (Demeter is my favorite). If I can't use that, I plug into some type of tube pre when I record (gotta warm things up in the digital world!). Try playing closer to the bridge of the bass as well, and cut your fingernails down low so you don't hit the string with that instead of the skin of your finger. It always makes a twang sound if my fingernail hits the string. Also make sure your bass is set up correctly. You say the twang is on the lowest string, so it might be an issue with your bass. Also, the pick up(s) in your bass might not be up to par. If something isn't right with them or the wiring, a hiss or buzz can occur depending on the issue. If your technique on the bass is to blame, a compressor might help you out. A lot of people compress bass to tape so it doesn't jump up in volume too much. Keep in mind, I mean a little compression....not A LOT OF COMPRESSION.

Frank R.

[BillyBuck]

I second using some sort of preamplification such as a tube DI or an out from the back of an amp. I used to record bass directly into the channel and even though there was ample low end, I could never get the midrange right. A little bit of preamping helps a dry signal immensely. I would think this would be particularly important with a Rick, since they have a significant treble component to their sound.

Also, a technique thing that's often missed by guitar players picking up the bass...on walking bass lines let your notes ring for their full value, i.e. don't cut off a note until just before the next one. Or, if you're playing a punchier line that's a main component of the song's rhythm, try using the heel or side of your plucking hand to partially mute the strings. This also works well with a pick, if that's the sound you're going for.

[StyxCollector]

As a bass player (since 1980) who does go into the studio it seems about once a year, I fought the DI for awhile and usually have had my amp mic'd. However, there are advantages to DI and mic'ing your amp (especially if you have a good one). As noted, mic'ing the amp can give you the air and presence (and a fuller sound), and the DI will give you some of the attack to cut through. You can also just mic the cab if you want, but I find you have more flexibility having both and you can choose at the mixing stage what you want to do.

I am DI'ing a rick 4001 and although sometimes it sounds great, I am finding I need to do a few things to clean it up so to speak. The signal coming in is strong, but there is some hiss from the treble pickups, and because I am not a good player I get a slight twang after the stroke of each note on the lowest string- It isn't something that is curable without playing softer, so would some sort of gate setup help this out? Would love to know how anybody familiar with doing this does it right. Thanks!

Now, playing aside, there might also be a problem with the bass. I've found that live I don't notice problems, but I've gotten rid of basses that don't record well. If it's a continuing problem, you may want to have your 4001 looked at.

[Russ Gary]

Lot of good suggestions here. Here's another one. Whether you prefer miking the cab or using a D.I., you might try this technique for recording the bass:

Insert a limiter/compressor
set the compression ratio to 6 (or higher) to 1. The high ratio keeps the crispness of the bass notes from disappearing

Adjust the threshold (compression) to approximately -8db. Tweak the threshold control until the bass blends nicely with the other instruments.
This adjustment will help control the roundness of the bottom notes, eliminating some annoying lower harmonics that muddy up a mix.

You shouldn't have to roll off low frequencies and hopefully you'll discover the bass never disappears in your mix.

[markshan]

but there is some hiss from the treble pickups,

Are you DIing into a DAW? If so, is your monitor on? Single coil pickups and CRTs are a baaaad combo. Just a thought.