Live Recording & downloading to a PC

[cdice]

Sckott et al gorts:
I DID ask the permission of the artists before I even thought of recording their show, and they're quite cool with it. These are some "buddies" of mine, not The Rolling Stones or anything!

I'm a real newbie when it comes to all of this new recording technology. I don't even own a cell phone. Truth. So, there's this live show I'm going to next weekened, and I decided I wanted to record it--just for me, I'm not a bootlegger or anything. A friend recommended a Edirol R-09 handheld stereo recorder for something decent under $400.00. I bought it. Going through the owner's manual, it says I'll need a 1GB SD card to record about an hour and twenty minutes at 16 bit/44.1 so I can then download it into my PC and use Windows Media Player to burn a CD-R. Okay. I get that. Here's my question: If I record 1 GB of a live show--let's say I use up the whole card--does that then mean I need 1 GB of "free space" on my harddrive on my PC in order to download it into the PC and burn a CD-R? Please don't laugh. I'm serious. I'm a real dummy when it comes to these things, but I'm trying to wade my way through it! If I do need 1 GB on my PC, would it be best if I recorded the show in "parts" or "sections", that is, record and stop after every couple of songs, and the just download "sections" into the PC? Will it matter? I'm open for advise/suggestions. Thanks.

[OliverReich]

It all depends, there are programs where you can look at and play the entire wavelength, adding track marks, which will then burn to a proper red-book cd----that's what I do---

[cdice]

It all depends, there are programs where you can look at and play the entire wavelength, adding track marks, which will then burn to a proper red-book cd----that's what I do---

It's my understanding from the Edriol RO-9's owner's manual that I can download from the portable recorder into my PC using a USB cable, then burn a CD-R using Windows Media Player. I also have a program I bought that I use sometimes called Roxio CD Creator. I'm really wondering about the memory thing on my PC. If I use up a 1 G SD card, does that translate that I need 1 G of memory ("freespace" or whatever the technical term is) on my PC, too, in order to download and edit on Windows Media PLayer or Roxio CD Creator?

[Tim S]

YEs, to transfer 1 gig of music off your recorder and onto your PC, the PC will need 1 gigabyte of hard drive space. IT is more than likely that you do have this space available so just do it all in one shot.

After you've done this you will need two blank CD's in order to fit this much music onto disc, so at some point you will have to do at least some real simple editing in order to burn the CD's. Have fun!

[Tim S]

The 1 gigabyte on your PC that you need is on the hard drive, it has nothing to do with the computer's memory. Trust me, I bet you are fine here.

[cdice]

The 1 gigabyte on your PC that you need is on the hard drive, it has nothing to do with the computer's memory. Trust me, I bet you are fine here.

Thanks, everyone. My hands are sweating in fear of screwing this up, but I'm going to give it the good old college try. Since a CD-R will hold up to 80 minutes ([pushing it), and a 1 G SB card is supposed to record in stereo at 16 bit/44.1 Hz up to about 80 minutes, I figure I'll just record one of their "sets" per 1 G card (they play about a 60 minute "set"), bring'em home, and play around with it. I think I will try to record each "set" all-at-once, instead of my original idea of stopping after each song or two, then hitting the record button again (so as to divide the live show up into "parts" just in case my home PC couldn't handle a 60 minute "whole" downloaded into it at once). I didn't know there was a difference between space on the "hard drive" and "memory". That's just how little I know about computers, but I'm trying to learn! Thanks again for walking me through this, folks. And Gorts, thanks for not deleting this post/thread. I fully understand your position(s) about recording live concerts without the permission of the artists, etc. and the taboo known as bootlegging. That's not gonna happen with me. This is just for me and the guys in the band (so they can hear what they "did right" and what they "f--ked up" that night). It's a learning tool.

[davmar77]

a friend of mine got one and i think he said he had to get some other items to connect and upload the files to his pc.maybe a special cable and some additional software.you might look into that.

[cdice]

a friend of mine got one and i think he said he had to get some other items to connect and upload the files to his pc.maybe a special cable and some additional software.you might look into that.

The owner's manual says it'll connect up with a USB cable, and one was included in the box. The owner's manual also said there are editing programs out there that can be used with both Macs and Windows, but they're optional. You're supposed to be able to download the files into your PC, then open Windows Media Player, then "import" (don't know if that's the right technical term) the file(s) into Windows Media Player, then burn a CD-R. This is, of course, if I don't want to add fades, reverb, or any of the fancy-schmancy stuff, which I don't. I just wanna be able to do a "straight burn" so I can have a CD-R and I can give copies to the guys in the band for their own use. Thanks for the tips, though!

[Charliemcd]

Hi cdice, thought I would throw in my $0.02. Assuming you are using a PC running Windows, for each hour or so of recording, you'll probably need to have at least 3 gigabytes (GB) of free space available on your computer's hard drive to do what you want. This is in addition to the typical 1/2 to 1 1/2 GB of free space that Windows itself needs to run OK. This is assuming you are recording 44 kHz at 16 bits. After you've copied the audio from your recorder to your PC, the file on the PC will need a gigabyte. Then when you open it in your audio editing program and start to do anything with it, the editor generally saves a temporary copy of the file you're working on. And after you're finished editing, you'll want to save the file with a new name so you can keep the original for at least a while as your backup copy, at least until you're sure you are happy with the finished product. After you close the editor, it should "free up" the temporary space it used, so you'll be back to using 2 GB of space at that point. Make sense?

If your PC has a DVD burner, I'd suggest you burn a copy of the original recorded files onto a DVD for safe keeping. If you only have a CD burner, you'll have to edit the files down to a bit under 800 megabytes to fit onto a typical CD-R for a backup. If you backup your original files onto CDs or DVDs, you can delete the originals from your hard drive after you're done editing.

Besides space on your computer's hard drive, you will need to have enough memory (RAM) in your computer to run the audio editing program you're going to use. There are lots of audio editing programs available, a pretty good open source (free) one is Audacity. Most of them should run fine on a computer that has a typical amount of RAM installed, but the more memory your PC has, the faster the editor will be able to get things done as you're editing. So it's just a matter of having to wait a bit longer to get something done if you don't have a lot of RAM.

Hope this helps clear things up for you. Good luck!

[Charliemcd]

Just realized you are really expecting to burn the file straight to CD using Windows Media Player (WMP). I'm not positive about WMP, but I would suggest having 2 gigabytes of free hard drive space available for each hour of recording, 1 GB for the copy of the file you download from the recorder, and 1 GB for WMP to use as temporary space.

[Paul G]

cdice --

I have an Edirol R-09. I use it primarily to record rehearsals and performances of the amateur chorus in which I sing (and my wife directs).

It is possible to get adequate recordings with the built-in mics, but you get much better results with a good external microphone and microphone preamp. I use the Audio-Technica AT822 single-point stereo mic and a Sound Professionals mic preamp with three levels of gain boost.

I suggest getting a 2 GB card for the R-09. It records up to two hours at 24-bit 44.1 khz, much more at lower resolution.

I transfer files to my laptop with a USB cable. I then edit the files in an audio editing program called Sony Sound Forge and burn to CD using Sony CD Architect, which now comes bundled with Sound Forge. Sound Forge may be a bit pricey if you do not want to do a lot of processing. A well-regarded free program around these forums is Audacity, available at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/.

Good luck!

Paul

[cdice]

cdice --

I have an Edirol R-09. I use it primarily to record rehearsals and performances of the amateur chorus in which I sing (and my wife directs).

It is possible to get adequate recordings with the built-in mics, but you get much better results with a good external microphone and microphone preamp. I use the Audio-Technica AT822 single-point stereo mic and a Sound Professionals mic preamp with three levels of gain boost.

I suggest getting a 2 GB card for the R-09. It records up to two hours at 24-bit 44.1 khz, much more at lower resolution.

I transfer files to my laptop with a USB cable. I then edit the files in an audio editing program called Sony Sound Forge and burn to CD using Sony CD Architect, which now comes bundled with Sound Forge. Sound Forge may be a bit pricey if you do not want to do a lot of processing. A well-regarded free program around these forums is Audacity, available at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/.

Good luck!

Paul

Thanx Charlie mcd & Paul G! Hey Paul, have you had any problems with the mic input or the line input on your RO-9? I was doing some "surfing" on various chat rooms yesterday, and there seems to be a general complaint about problems of the mic & line inputs not functioning, or breaking easily. From what I read, it's recommended to use cables with a "right bend" instead of a "straight in" to help protect the sensitive circuit board within the RO-9. Comments? I don't plan on using any external mics at this juncture, but if this puppy works like it's supposed to work, I may, at some future point, try to hook it up to my cassette deck and download some stuff from cassette into the RO-9 (using the line inputs), then downloading the signal back out (using a USB cable) into my PC so I can burn CD-Rs of my cassettes via the RO-9.

[markshan]

From what I read, it's recommended to use cables with a "right bend" instead of a "straight in" to help protect the sensitive circuit board within the RO-9. Comments?

Use cables with right angles then use rubber bands or velcro straps to secure them to the unit and give strain relief.

[markshan]

Since it is buddies of yours, why not record from the board?

[Solaris]

This may be a silly question, but will there be a sound guy running everything through a mixing board, or is this straight plug-in-the-amps-and-go? If it's the former, I'd personally try to plug into the soundboard and get the sound guy's mix. It'll be a lot clearer recording.

edit: Mark just beat me to it!

[StyxCollector]

You can bypass the USB way if you take the SD card and put into a reader as you would if you had a camera. My laptop has a built-in SD reader.

The R09 is a nice recorder; I've used it without a problem for a long time. I do find that in a loud situation I do have to enable bass rolloff sometimes, and I try to adjust the levels myself. AGC works, but tends to be a bit low volume-wise.

I've used both the internal mics as well as an AT 825, and both get decent results.

[StyxCollector]

Since it is buddies of yours, why not record from the board?

+1

But to make it easier for the sound guy, make sure you have XLR, 1/4", and RCA ends or converters for the board so that no matter what output format the board has, you can use it. You'll most likely start with a stereo RCA to 1/8" cable.

[Paul G]

Hey Paul, have you had any problems with the mic input or the line input on your RO-9? I was doing some "surfing" on various chat rooms yesterday, and there seems to be a general complaint about problems of the mic & line inputs not functioning, or breaking easily. From what I read, it's recommended to use cables with a "right bend" instead of a "straight in" to help protect the sensitive circuit board within the RO-9. Comments? I don't plan on using any external mics at this juncture, but if this puppy works like it's supposed to work, I may, at some future point, try to hook it up to my cassette deck and download some stuff from cassette into the RO-9 (using the line inputs), then downloading the signal back out (using a USB cable) into my PC so I can burn CD-Rs of my cassettes via the RO-9.

I haven't had problems with broken jacks, but I have not given the machine heavy use yet. The mic preamp I use, which plugs into the line-in jack, is hard-wired with a right-angle plug.

As for doing digital transfers of cassettes, why not just record straight into your PC, using freeware such as Audacity?

Paul

[cdice]

Since it is buddies of yours, why not record from the board?

Oh, gosh! I never thought of that! Oh well, too late now. I had quite a lot of fun doing my very first "live" recording. I used the built-in mics on the Edriol R-09, and was successful and downloading it into my PC and burning some CD-Rs. Actually, I had myself all stressed out for nothing. It was really easy. When we played back the music from the SD card (directly from the Edriol RO-9 unit) there were two or three "pops" where the sound clipped. I know I saw the "peak" indicator on the unit flash a couple of times over the course of the two sets, but I didn't think anything of it. I was thinking in terms of the old VU meters on a cassette recorder...didn't think it mattered if the signal "peaked" once-in-a-while. Guess I was wrong. I guess when the owner's manual says NEVER let the peak meter light come on, they mean never! Now I'm hooked. I wanna pick up some decent external mics. The sound quality was quite acceptable from the internal RO-9 mics, and wind noise (another one of my fears) didn't come into play at all. The internal mics did pick up a little more of the audience "chatter" than I would have liked, but the recording served its purpose the help the guys in the band see what went over well (with the audience) and what sucked. Thanks again for everyone's help.