Any reason not to have a list of polarity inverted CDs?

I recently purchased a new SACD player that has a polarity inversion switch on it. Now that the player is burned in I'm noticing a dramatic difference in sound quality on some discs when the switch is on. For those discs that sound better with their polarity inverted I put a coloured stick-on dot on a plastic part of the jewel case. My most recent titles to get the sticker are Bob Dylan's Modern Times and the recent remaster of David Crosby's If I could Only Remember My Name.

So, if I or anyone else is reversing polarity on some discs, does this mean that everyone should, (although I do realize that not everyone has this convenience, unless they want to reverse speaker wires)? If so, and if I had a list of these discs then I could just sticker the ones I have all at once and not spend so much time evaluating discs one by one. Since the polarity switch is unfortunately not on my remote control there's a lot of up and down/back and forth time for each disc and sometimes I can't even be bothered. If I could consult a database even, I'd be grateful for the convenience.

 

I can think of a big reason.

All systems are different. Yes, you notice a difference when using the absolute phase invert switch. You don't know which way is 'right' because your preamplifier, power amplifier, and even speakers may invert the phase from the way you think is 'right'.

Such a list would have to have 'I can hear a difference' and 'I can't hear a difference' columns. And then everyone's mileage would vary.

 

Steven has stated that most multitrack recordings have some parts inverted and spme not.

 

Yes, that 's interesting. I'm fairly new at this and I don't even understand why the switch seems to make no diffrence on some discs. I suspected that there could be some 'techinical subjectivity' that would interfere with a right or wrong approach. Still, I'd be interested in anyone else's experience even if I can't reproduce it. Thanks for responding.

 

I'd kill to get a cd player that does this trick.

I have scads of cd's where the center image is lower than it should be,
buried vocals etc. and that polarity-inversion trick would be the cure.

I have several discs that I have to get up and swap the speaker leads to listen to them. then I have to remember to switch them back when I finish.

One example of a cd with polarity problems:
The Stranglers' Aural Sculpture (Original US cd).
The vocal on "Uptown" is buried only on the cd, not the vinyl.

 

Out of curiosity, does the "Polarity Reverse" switch toggle the phase for the entirety of the mix, or does it affect a specific channel?

 

That's right! This can be confirmed with the use of a computer audio editor.

 

It flips both channels.

Back when people were still arguing if pin 2 or pin 3 was hot on XLR connectors there's a very good possibility that the absolute polarity of a CD is 180 degrees out. That means the transients of things like kick and snare are making your speaker cones go in instead of push out. That's why you can hear some noticeable improvement when the correct polarity is restored.

 

Excellent point. I remember back in the day having a large argument with a well respected industry veteran that there was no standards for microphones. He insisted that pin 3 was positive, pin 2 negative, and of course pin 1 ground. I showed him data sheets from microphones which were contrary to this. Some companies used pin 2 and some used pin 3. I don't know that this was ever standardized, but Jamie's tone suggests that perhaps it was.

I will also agree the the previously made point that in a multitrack recording there is virtually no such thing as absolute phase. There are so many places were phase on a single channel can be inverted, and I assure you that most engineers paid little or no attention to absolute phase.

Now if you are talking about a simple 2 mic recording, by all means there can be absolute phase integrity.

But with a multitrack recording, if you flip absolute phase one way, it may favor some instruments, while the other way will favor others. It's a total crapshoot if you ask me.

 

Thanks, Jamie!

 

George Massenburg perhaps?

Pin 2 hot is the standard now. Remember those spinners they gave away at AES that had Pin 2, Pin 3 on them? Funny!

 

Not George, but that brings up a interesing point. Back in 1976 I was offered positions touring with two bands. One was Seals & Crofts, and the other was Earth Wind and Fire. I went with S&C mainly because it was an airplane tour and EW&F was a bus tour. I also had friends with S&C at the time.

In hindsight, perhaps I may have made the wrong choice, though I really have no regrets. Building Dawnbreaker and getting to know many of the LA music cats was a blast, but working side by side with George probably would have been more stimulating and inspirational for me. I have a good friend who is good friends with George.

Btw, the guy who offered me the EW&F job was Mark Linett.

 

George was on the EW&F tour? Did he do live sound or was he recording the shows?

 

No, but Mark was involved. But EW&F worked closely with him in the studio, and I would have likely wormed my way in there like I did at Dawnbreaker.

 

George engineered all of their records from about 1974-1981.

 

It's more than just 'hot' transients. Everything from voice to bowed instruments to brass is an asymmetrical waveform. Electronic instruments and flutes make sine waves, just about.

When I first found out about the absolute phase inversion problem, I moved speaker wires for a few months and then got fed up. It really does make a difference, but needs to be 'sound quality neutral' and remotely controllable. A modern electronically switched preamp is ideal, but so few offer it.

 

Can't do much if you have two singers on either side of a microphone set to figure of 8