Yes - The Yes Album (early Atlantic CD)

Atlantic SD 19131-2 - i picked this up recently, but there's no mastering credit. barry, did you master this one?

 

Hi imagnrywar,

Another one of those "test the memory" questions I'm afraid.
My best guess is yes, I mastered the original CD release.

I don't recall which one it was but one of the Yes tapes (most likely a "flat" transfer if it wasn't the original mix tapes -- brick red tapes in plain brown boxes) was slamming the VU meters on the analog playback deck so hard, they pinned for most of the duration of the album. I hard to turn down the analog playback level ~7dB just to prevent overloading the playback circuitry of the machine and get the sound off the tapes.

There were one or two "producers" back then who used to say to me "the VUs don't matter". The audible evidence however, did not support this contention.

Once analog tape is hit that hard, the top end goes bye-bye.
I do seem to recall some comments on this forum about one (perhaps more than one) of the original Yes CDs "lacking top".
I don't remember if I applied any EQ at all to try and bring some of it back. Chances are, if the tape was that overloaded on the way in, adding top would only emphasize that. All I could do was my very best, given the source(s) I had.

I haven't heard any of those Yes CDs in years. Wish I still had my copies.
How does it sound to you?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Is that to say that you didn't have access to the masters for any of the YES cds you mastered? If you recall that is.

 

That sounds like the Fragile CD. It's somewhat fuzzy with a noticeable lack of top end.

The Yes Album sounds quite nice. There's slightly more hiss, presumably from the generation loss, but the tonality of the CD is spot on. I always assumed it was one you did since it sounds so close to your mastering of Close To the Edge.

 

IIRC, the one Yes CD "lacking top" in its original incarnation was "Fragile".

I love the sound of this "Yes Album". Great job Barry!!!!

 

The original Fragile on cd sounds very close to my UK vinyl pressing (Catalogue number K50009. Printed in England by Gothic Print Finishers Ltd. Matrix number K50009-A/K50009-B-1 and also E.G.. on both sides). I agree it sounds dull but I like it (my favorite). I have also compared the original Atlantic "Yes" cd to a holland made LP. They both sound very good.

I have a US made Close to the edge (George Piros I think) and this sounds different to the original Atlantic Cd. It is quite a bit "brighter". Based on the US vinyl albums I have heard, and also comments in the many Yes threads, I belive some of the US YES on LP is EQed quite a bit different than their UK conterparts. My impression is that the UK versions sound closer to the original recordings.

When I finally picked up the original Atlantic Tales... I was blown away by the sound. I think it sounds very good.

 

Cool! I have the same pressing in front of me which I purchased in 84 or 85... smooth case (patent pending..lol) and all. It was probably one of my first 10 or 20 CDs. I'll have to listen to this as it's been a while. Thanks for the info on this!

 

I have the 32XD pressing of "Fragile" from Japan and it sounds great. I've heard other versions, but this is just the way I want it to sound.

 

Oops...sorry... was referring to the Yes Album.

 

I think the original US Atlantic pressing of Fragile sounds terrible. The only original Atlantic that does, IMO.

 

Thanks, Barry, your work is stellar on this. Back in '94, when the Gottlieb's remaster series came out, I remember thinking that the only thing better about The Yes Album was the packaging.

I love the production on TYA. All of the later classic releases seem to have niggling (or major) sonic flaws, for some reason.

 

Hi Dave W S,

I always requested original masters, over and over and over again.
Then I'd request them a few more times.
For every project I ever did.

Atlantic management at the time preferred that I use the "EQd/limited" copies created during vinyl mastering so the CD "would sound like the vinyl".
I kept insisting on original masters instead. The "EQ'd/limited" tapes were always and without exception, brightened and squashed.

Sometimes I got lucky and had access to originals.
Other times, I had (so-called) "flat" copies of the originals - perhaps "safety copies" when the originals were over in the UK.

For Yes, my best guess is I had "flat" copies. But it is only a guess. It is possible some may have been originals. I would tend to doubt this in most cases though. If I had to, I'd bet "flat" copies.

One of the many advantages in going independent, leaving Atlantic and forming BDA, was that I got original masters all the time -except for one instance early on. When Island at first sent me Sony 1630 (digital) copies of the Marley albums, I called and suggested that folks will be listening to the CDs for years to come. I asked what they were saving the original masters for and the next day, FedEx delivered boxes of original masters.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Gottlieb?

 

Gottlieb Bros. did the packaging design on the Atlantic remasters I believe. . .

 

Now if it was a flat copy of the master...would it stand to reason that the copy wouldn't ALSO be red-lined like that? Meaning that this process would have been done twice?

I wish Steve could chime in here as he has played back the original tape and although he has said that it sounds like it was mixed in the back of a bus....I just would love a little more...um....detail....

(of course he's busy concerned with other....WAY more important matters now! Good luck to you and yours Steve!!!!!!! Hope everything is OK with the birth!)

 

for the record, Joe Gastwirt mastered most of the YES catalog in the mid-90's.

later, chris

 

Hi Paul,

I've said before that my experience has shown me there are many different interpretations among engineers as to what constitutes a "flat" master.

To some, if they're not applying EQ or compression, they're transferring flat, even if they calibrate levels differently.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

This has got to be the first time I've heard a remaster series attributed to the packaging design folks.

 

Thank you Barry! I really don't know the hows or whys involved...I just wish there was more info on what is exactly on the master of this tape that was translated so weirdly in the first place!

thank you for your much valued contributions to this forum!

 

Too bad Atlantic didn't always listen to you.

I like your mastering of CTTE I just recently purchased. Although it does sound like it perhaps came from a flat copy as your memory suggests and the tape hiss also suggests, I do prefer it to the Rhino remaster for the same reason Jamie mentioned, better tone. The Rhino of CTTE, though from master tapes which of course is good, sounds a bit harsh. Especially the guitar on Siberian Khatru.

This was never my favorite sounding Yes album though. I much prefer the production sound on Fragile and also The Yes Album.

 

The Yes Album original CD sounds very good.

 

Hi Dave W S,

Most original analog master tapes I've heard display some tape hiss.

To my ears, if the mastering is transparent and faithful to the original, that hiss should be audible.

In my experience, the only times it isn't is when either the lower treble has been boosted to the point of masking the hiss (or diverting the listener's ear) or it has been deliberately filtered, in which case some of the music will have been filtered too.

The thing about hiss is that because it is constant, it is relatively easy to tune out. I know it is there on many great records I enjoy and if listened for, is obvious. However, when concentrating on the music, I find the hiss just "fades" into the deep background.

Bottom line: In my view, if the source is an old analog original, hiss is good. It tells me I might be hearing through to that original.
That's my take on it anyway.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Boosting the lower treble to mask the hiss? I never thought of that. I can see how that could help mask hiss though, by diverting attention like you say. I certainly don't dislike hiss and would never compromise the music to get rid of it. I can't believe people do that.

Anyway, it hardly matters if it's the original master tapes so as long as I like it. I guess what fuels the curiosity is that I like it, and knowing that it might not be the original master that you used, I wonder about a hypothetical superior version.

 

Hi all!

Just purchased an original Atlantic "The Yes Album" on which the spine reads:

SD 19131-2
EUROPE :240 106

The CD itself has the familer red Atlantic logo but the edges have "Manufacted by Victor Company of Japan LTD. Made In Japan"

Did I purchase the original Barry D. mastered disc or something else and is this disc preferable or not the usual domestic release?


Also, I went back to listen to the Gastwirt disc I own of this album and it sounded pretty good to me with more bottom and a tighter overall sound (compression I guess) , it did seem to have less hiss though, did it have NR applied? Anyway, whomever can straighten this out would be a big help.

Charles

 

I'm a latecomer to CTTE. I first heard it when I picked up a Japanese vinyl pressing at a record convention last autumn and fell in love with it right away. My copy always seemed a bit midrange heavy without a lot of extension in either extreme. Plus, the big mellotron chords in And You And I sound very squashed and overloaded. I found a mint used Canadian reissue (KSD-19133) while on vacation a couple of weeks ago and I find its sound quality much better. The bass in much deeper, more round and solid, plus the highs are better. The whole LP sounds less congested, and those big chords while still a bit boxy (probably due to it being a Mellotron), sound much better.

To bring the topic back to the Yes album, I've heard Barry's CD and prefer it to any remasters I've heard. I also have a nice Canadian vinyl version that sounds very good.