Interconnect Testing Question

[Shawn1968]

Over the years, I've aquired numerous interconnect cables. Admittedly, none of these are very high-end, probably more low- to mid-range. But as I'm re-setting up my system after a move, I want to use the best ones I have.

That said, I came up with the following way to audition them but am wondering if my method is good or completely off-base. For example, let's say I'm auditioning two sets of interconnects for my CD player, interconnect "1" and interconnect "2".

Basically, I hook up one channel of each cable to the CD player at the same time: I connect the "right" cable of interconnect "1" from the right output of the CD player to the integrated amp's right channel, then connected the "left" cable of interconnect "2" from the CD player's left output to the integrated amp's left channel.

I then put on a mono CD (in this case, the beginning tracks of Steve's "Elvis 24 Karrot Hits!") and, using the balance control, first listen to the track in speaker "A" and then repeat the track in speaker "B". I can also vary the balance control throughout the song to hear each cable.

I've used all these cables for many hours over the years, so they should all be "burnt in."

Does this seem like a reasonable way to audition them? Any other suggestions?

Please note, I am purposely leaving out cable brand names to avoid unneccesary arguments. I'd also like to state upfront that I believe interconnects can have an effect on the sound; this thread is not the place to argue whether there is an effect or not :)

[John Carsell]

Sounds like a good way to test them to me.

[TONEPUB]

certainly a good place to start.

[mcow1]

That's how I first found how much difference ICs, and speaker wires can make.

[Shawn1968]

Thanks for the confirmation, everyone :) As you can guess, testing interconnects is new to me but I'm actually enjoying this quite a bit. And I'm surprised at some of the results too!

[Russ]

Shawn,

It's a great idea and I've done the same thing. I also used my wife's apathetic ears to confirm my findings. I've also done the same thing on speaker wire and other I/C's. Before the I/C police get here and turn your thread into a pissing match you should mention that your lengths are measured to the sub-atomic nanometer, that they hung in the same measured fashion, equi-distant from power sources, and than one isn't warmer from the sunlight.

Ughhhh.....

[JBStephens]

A good idea, provided your speakers are absolutely identical within a fraction of a fraction of a decibel, and your power amp and preamp sections are also equally absolutely identical. Otherwise what you detect as a difference between cables might be a difference between speakers or amplifier channels and room acoustics. If you do hear a difference between channels, exchange the cables, 1 for 2, 2 for 1. Then if you hear the same difference in the opposite channel you heard it the first time, you know it's the cable. A better idea would be two Y-adapters, one for each channel of the CD player. Then you can run the two different cables to two different inputs on the amp, and switch back and forth between them. You could also run a stereo source CD that way, too.

[Russ]

Told ya!

[Shawn1968]

A better idea would be two Y-adapters, one for each channel of the CD player. Then you can run the two different cables to two different inputs on the amp, and switch back and forth between them. You could also run a stereo source CD that way, too.

Excellent idea, thank you!

[mcow1]

If you do hear a difference between channels, exchange the cables, 1 for 2, 2 for 1. Then if you hear the same difference in the opposite channel you heard it the first time, you know it's the cable.

Of course!

[Rolf Erickson]

Yes, you must do it in "Mono" by joining both channels together with both cables seeing the same signal. Also you must reverse the amp channels several times and therefore also the speakers several times to determine what CABLE is making the change if any. Checking with headphones would be better still, eliminating any room effects also. Perhaps make a high-resolution recording each way and see if any difference can be detected, if it can not, and differences were heard before, go back to "live" testing. If you do make a useful recording, put it up on the web so others can participate in testing... Make it blind, so it's a fair test. Do a few samples without any change of cables at all, mix them up at random, and let's see how many can detect with good reliability, the various cable brands. After a period of time, reveal the results, we all, including myself, could learn something. This is part of the fun of this hobby. Happy listening.

[Jay Casey]

A good idea, provided your speakers are absolutely identical within a fraction of a fraction of a decibel, and your power amp and preamp sections are also equally absolutely identical. Otherwise what you detect as a difference between cables might be a difference between speakers or amplifier channels and room acoustics. If you do hear a difference between channels, exchange the cables, 1 for 2, 2 for 1. Then if you hear the same difference in the opposite channel you heard it the first time, you know it's the cable.


A better idea would be two Y-adapters, one for each channel of the CD player. Then you can run the two different cables to two different inputs on the amp, and switch back and forth between them. You could also run a stereo source CD that way, too.

You caution about the speakers being identical, then recommend that he use separate inputs to compare??????? Isn't there an equal chance that the inputs might not be identical??

[JBStephens]

You caution about the speakers being identical, then recommend that he use separate inputs to compare??????? Isn't there an equal chance that the inputs might not be identical??

Since all you are doing is throwing the poles of a switch from one cable to another to feed the exact same gain stage of the preamp, the inputs can't be anything but identical. Unless the one input is a longer internal signal path to the first gain stage, adding 0.000000000000000003 ohms resistance or something.

[JBStephens]

Another idea. Use the tape loop (assuming you have one), and connect a cable to the in/out, both channels. Then hitting the "tape monitor" button will instantly reveal if the given cable has a degrading effect on the signal. That won't allow you to hear a difference between cables, but will tell you if the cable is having any audible effect at all, which you certainly don't want.

[GabeG]

Uhhh. People here are talking about how the speakers must match closely or worried that two different inputs might sound different, etc, but these are all fairly minor things to worry about.

The big flaw with the stated test would be if the speakers aren't set up absolutely perfectly. Any acoustical differences that each speaker sees will far, far outweigh any differences between cables, slight differences between electronics, etc.

[Shawn1968]

The big flaw with the stated test would be if the speakers aren't set up absolutely perfectly. Any acoustical differences that each speaker sees will far, far outweigh any differences between cables, slight differences between electronics, etc.

What I'm hoping will compensate for that is me "swaping" the cables after each listen so that the R/R cable will be the L/L cable, and vice-versa.

[bdiament]

Hi Shawn1968,

...Does this seem like a reasonable way to audition them?...

In my view, no, it doesn't. Even if your speakers are perfectly identical, they cannot occupy the same physical space so each will necessarily sound a bit different from the other.

Also, your hearing will most likely be slightly different from ear to ear, not even necessarily because of differing sensitivities between your ears but you might just hear better through one than the other.

In any event, I think this will only make it harder to hear how you feel about each cable you audition. Besides, this isn't reflective of how you'd actually use the cables day to day.

Sure you could listen, then swap the positions of the cables but in none of these tests will you hear the same thing you would in actual listening, in stereo to a pair of cables. This is also important because one way a cable can affect the sound is in the reproduction of soundstage, imaging, depth -- none of which will be heard with mono cable auditions.

Someone suggested using "Y" adapters but I believe this will alter how each cable interacts with the source and load it is connecting -- again, a departure from how the cables would be used every day.


...Any other suggestions?...

My suggestion?
1. Chose a small variety of recordings you consider to be some of your very best sounding and that you also know fairly well.
2. Insert one set of the cables under test (both cables, as if they are the only pair you have and all testing is done).
3. Listen to the chosen recordings. Do this over a period of at least several days. I would suggest something closer to two weeks in order to get a good fix on how things sound.
4. Swap out cables to another pair and do the listening tests again --also for something like two weeks.
5. Swap back to the first set and listen to them. By now you should have a good impression of the differences between cables and which you prefer.
6. If you have more than two candidates, stay with the winner of the first comparison for another week or two, then swap to cable pair #3 for about two weeks.
7. Go back to the cables inserted in step 5 and see if you prefer those to the set you just listened to. etc. etc.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

[JBStephens]

Someone suggested using "Y" adapters but I believe this will alter how each cable interacts with the source and load it is connecting -- again, a departure from how the cables would be used every day.


This is very true, Barry. Since the cables would "see" each other with a Y adapter, there would be a minuscule change in capacitance. Load resistance seen by the source would not be affected because only one cable at a time is actually connected to the preamp, there would be no terminus on the other cable. The not-selected cable would be open-ended. But since we're not looking to judge a cable on it's own, but rather to discover if there's a difference between cables, the added capacitance would be immaterial, since capacitance is being added to both cables.

But absolutely, yes. It will take days, if not weeks, of listening to familiar program material to determine a preference for a cable.

[Shawn1968]

This is why I love this place - great suggestions all around! I think I'm going to try many of them, just to see the potentially different results. And I will also try the cables out for a week or two to see what results that listening experience produces.

Again, thank you all for the adivice!!!

[bdiament]

This is very true, Barry. Since the cables would "see" each other with a Y adapter, there would be a minuscule change in capacitance. Load resistance seen by the source would not be affected because only one cable at a time is actually connected to the preamp, there would be no terminus on the other cable. The not-selected cable would be open-ended. But since we're not looking to judge a cable on it's own, but rather to discover if there's a difference between cables, the added capacitance would be immaterial, since capacitance is being added to both cables.

But absolutely, yes. It will take days, if not weeks, of listening to familiar program material to determine a preference for a cable.

Hi JBStephens,

We may have to agree to disagree on the significance of the electrical changes when a "Y" connector is used. I would not deem the results of such an audition the equivalent of having heard how the cable under test would actually perform.

Also, I believe the original poster is seeking to decide which interconnect he wants to use. The best way to know this in my view, is to hear how each will actually perform when it is connected the way it will be connected in actual use.

Just my take on it. Clearly, there are many paths one can take.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

[Steve Hoffman]

Here is how I do it if one doesn't have weeks. Might work for you all.

First, the results will depend (as always) on how your system resolves, not how much money it cost...

Take a piece of music that you know WELL. Play a song with your current wire. Note how the cymbals sound, bass response, dynamics, midrange, etc. Make sure the piece of music is something you know by heart so you can just listen to the sound and not the song.

Now, without changing volume, drop your new wire from CD player to line stage or line stage to amp. Whichever will not make a giant BUZZZZZZ when plugged in or out. :agree:

Now, play that same song again. What, if anything. has changed? Bass stay the same or did it get louder, muddier, leaner. etc.? Midrange more or less holographic? Top end become tizzy or what? Cymbals resolve better, more or less natural sounding?

Play the song a few times and then switch back in the OLD cable. Better or worse in the above ways?

Never try and judge more than one new wire at a session or you will really be thrown off.

In my systems the sound of different wire is quite apparent and I have to say that most audiophile wire I try is not pleasing to me. Makers of wire are obsessed with getting more "detail" while losing that cohesiveness that I love so I am really critical. You should be too!

Don't be swayed by price, looks or anything else. If something works for you, remember, you have to live with it long term so don't be swayed by treble increase, etc. This always (and I mean ALWAYS) comes back to bite you in the butt! If you dig a certain wire (or think you do), play it with several of your favorite songs. Make sure you are not being swayed by too much detail; once you lose that "natural" sound, it's gone!

Happy hunting.

[JBStephens]

Just my take on it. Clearly, there are many paths one can take.

Barry,

Since you said that in a thread about interconnects, the pun police will be arriving at your door very soon to collect the standard $7.98 fine.

JB

[bdiament]

Barry,
Since you said that in a thread about interconnects, the pun police will be arriving at your door very soon to collect the standard $7.98 fine.
JB

Yikes JBStephens!

Is there any way I can insulate myself from this?
How about if I promise to conduct myself differently in the future?
I'll even offer less resistance.
The whole subject gets me wired.

(Insert drum fill here.)
;-}

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

[Ski Bum]

IMO the posts above by two of our most knowledgeable Forum members, Barry Diament (post #18) and Steve Hoffman (post #22), may be two of the most important posts that you'll ever see about auditioning hi fi equipment. Either you can take the Diament approach (listen for a couple of weeks) or the Hoffman approach (teach yourself to isolate key elements of the sound and focus on them during the audition). It took me a lot of years to understand the truth of these posts.

You will have to do some self-training to make the Hoffman approach work for you (and it becomes easier as you use increasingly more resolving systems), but it allows you to audition quite effectively (and helps in double-blind tests). Otherwise, the Diament approach is the only reliable way to make equipment comparisons.