Making the most of iPod as an "audiophile" source

[albertoderoma]

With guests taking over my listening room (or guest room, depending on whether you are me or my wife) I was forced to get my audio jollies elsewhere.

So I dusted off:

1) my Bottlehead S.E.X. (Single Ended Experimenter) single-ended DIY tube amplifier

2) my ancient iPod (the original U2 - the one in red and black which must be at least 3 years old - 4th generation I believe), most of the music is recorded in the lossless format.

3) my Sennheiser HD580 Jubilee headphone

I connected the iPod through the headphone output (I am investigating using a line out).

I spent several hours in audio bliss, the tubes in Bottlehead tames the digital gremlins very effectively and the Sennheisers are such nice and warm headphones that I experienced absolutely no listening fatigue.

But while I was enjoying the music I came up with some questions that some of you might be able to answer.

1) Are some iPods (generation/models) considered better than others in terms of audio quality? Do 5th generation models sound "better" than 4th. Someone told me that the extra circuitry for video adds noise/complication and that for audio 4th gen are preferred to 5th gen.

2) If I have to go through the headphone output instead of the line out, am I better off keeping the iPod volume low and have the headphone amp do most of the work or viceversa? Or perhaps the best combination is somewhere in between because:

too low iPod volume = too high S/N
too high iPod volume = too high distortion

3) Apple offers a doc that works with a remote that can control the volume, I assume that this is not the way to go if I want to minimize the signal path and simply get the line out. Correct?

Thank you in advance for any insights and suggestions you might offer.

[TONEPUB]

Check out Vinnie at Red Wine Audio...

He does a mod for those iPods that is killer! It's only a couple hundred bucks.

But if you just use your iPod with the dock and then use the line out, you will get a bit more sound quality. You are completely on the right track with uncompressed, and the iPod sounds remarkably good when used this way!

The SEX amp is great too! Bottlehead is great budget gear!!

Have fun!

[guitarguy]

I can't speak to all of your concerns but I would recommend using the standard apple dock as a line out for the best audio quality. The headphone amp in the iPod is pretty bad whereas the line out sounds much better.

Also - i was researching the audio quality of various models a while back and the 4th gen iPod photo had significantly better audio quality than the 3rd gen or 4th gen non-photo. Comparing my 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen models I have to say that the 5th gen is the best to my ears and the 4th gen photo is not far behind - speaking of headphone amps. Line out I don't notice much difference.

I have been using a Sendstation Pocketdock to get line out from my iPod with great results.

http://www.sendstation.com/us/products/pocketdock/lineout-usb.html




With guests taking over my listening room (or guest room, depending on whether you are me or my wife) I was forced to get my audio jollies elsewhere.

So I dusted off:

1) my Bottlehead S.E.X. (Single Ended Experimenter) single-ended DIY tube amplifier

2) my ancient iPod (the original U2 - the one in red and black which must be at least 3 years old - 4th generation I believe), most of the music is recorded in the lossless format.

3) my Sennheiser HD580 Jubilee headphone

I connected the iPod through the headphone output (I am investigating using a line out).

I spent several hours in audio bliss, the tubes in Bottlehead tames the digital gremlins very effectively and the Sennheisers are such nice and warm headphones that I experienced absolutely no listening fatigue.

But while I was enjoying the music I came up with some questions that some of you might be able to answer.

1) Are some iPods (generation/models) considered better than others in terms of audio quality? Do 5th generation models sound "better" than 4th. Someone told me that the extra circuitry for video adds noise/complication and that for audio 4th gen are preferred to 5th gen.

2) If I have to go through the headphone output instead of the line out, am I better off keeping the iPod volume low and have the headphone amp do most of the work or viceversa? Or perhaps the best combination is somewhere in between because:

too low iPod volume = too high S/N
too high iPod volume = too high distortion

3) Apple offers a doc that works with a remote that can control the volume, I assume that this is not the way to go if I want to minimize the signal path and simply get the line out. Correct?

Thank you in advance for any insights and suggestions you might offer.

[stereoptic]

II have been using a Sendstation Pocketdock to get line out from my iPod with great results.

Here are some other options:
ebay : search ipod dock line out (http://search.ebay.com/ipod-dock-line-out_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoe ntrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfromZR9QQf romZR9QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQsacatZ Q2d1QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMEFSRCHQ3aSRCH)

Audio line out (http://www.aloaudio.com/)

[Metralla]

I first used a SendStation PocketDock to send a line level signal to my Headroom Total Airhead II headphone amplifier.

I replaced this with a custom made dock from Ken at Audio Line Out which uses Jena wire from the dock to a Neutrik right-angle miniplug. The improvement in sound quality was significant. The cost was $100 more, so one would expect higher fidelity - and the cable delivered.

Your mileage may vary.

[axnyslie]

The grapevine is abuzz with a new round of 6G iPod rumors; not everyone is confident about an announcement coming within the next week, but confidence is growing fast that the announcement is imminent and that the new iPod will have lots of the iPhone features minus the phone, such as a stripped down version of OS X, wi-fi, and sport touch-controlled widescreens. Since all my CDs are encoded as lossless on my Mac I'd welcome the larger capacity so I don't have to transfer & delete files as often.

[dinchart]

1) Are some iPods (generation/models) considered better than others in terms of audio quality? Do 5th generation models sound "better" than 4th. Someone told me that the extra circuitry for video adds noise/complication and that for audio 4th gen are preferred to 5th gen.

2) If I have to go through the headphone output instead of the line out, am I better off keeping the iPod volume low and have the headphone amp do most of the work or viceversa? Or perhaps the best combination is somewhere in between because:

too low iPod volume = too high S/N
too high iPod volume = too high distortion

3) Apple offers a doc that works with a remote that can control the volume, I assume that this is not the way to go if I want to minimize the signal path and simply get the line out. Correct?


1)The consensus is that the 4G iPod has better DACs that the later models. I have both 4G & 5.5Gs, and think the 4G sounds better (BTW, the same is true for the Shuffle; the 1G sounds better than the 2G).

2)Generally, you start with the volume on the iPod up.

Can't help with #3. The people in the portable audio forum at Headfi.org can.

[stereoptic]

here's the link to a review that claims that the Shuffle (Origianal model) more accuately reproduced 40-Hz square wave test compared to other iPods.
Shuffle's Got a Secret (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1777890,00.asp)

[LesPaul666]

I have a stupid question. Why doesn't Apple ever come out with an iPod with a digital output???

[Rick B.]

You may find this review of an iPod to be of interest. The unfortunate conclusion of the reviewer:

"The iPod - any MP3 player in fact - has the potential to be an audiophile product. The extraordinarily low noise floor, coupled with acceptably low distortion, delivers detailed highs in the music. However, the declining frequency response from 10 kHz on down results in poor midrange, and unacceptable bass."

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/ipod-bench-tested-3-2007-part-1.html

[Agent Kang]

With guests taking over my listening room (or guest room, depending on whether you are me or my wife) I was forced to get my audio jollies elsewhere.

So I dusted off:

1) my Bottlehead S.E.X. (Single Ended Experimenter) single-ended DIY tube amplifier

2) my ancient iPod (the original U2 - the one in red and black which must be at least 3 years old - 4th generation I believe), most of the music is recorded in the lossless format.

3) my Sennheiser HD580 Jubilee headphone

I connected the iPod through the headphone output (I am investigating using a line out).

I spent several hours in audio bliss, the tubes in Bottlehead tames the digital gremlins very effectively and the Sennheisers are such nice and warm headphones that I experienced absolutely no listening fatigue.

But while I was enjoying the music I came up with some questions that some of you might be able to answer.

1) Are some iPods (generation/models) considered better than others in terms of audio quality? Do 5th generation models sound "better" than 4th. Someone told me that the extra circuitry for video adds noise/complication and that for audio 4th gen are preferred to 5th gen.

2) If I have to go through the headphone output instead of the line out, am I better off keeping the iPod volume low and have the headphone amp do most of the work or viceversa? Or perhaps the best combination is somewhere in between because:

too low iPod volume = too high S/N
too high iPod volume = too high distortion

3) Apple offers a doc that works with a remote that can control the volume, I assume that this is not the way to go if I want to minimize the signal path and simply get the line out. Correct?

Thank you in advance for any insights and suggestions you might offer.

The internal components are not that great in Ipods, althought there are relative improvements in suceeding generations.

Connecting an amplifier via headphone out is generally not recommended. You should def. get a lineout, it'll make a big improvement in SQ.

[gloomrider]

I have a stupid question. Why doesn't Apple ever come out with an iPod with a digital output???

I'm thinking real estate (coax or optical or both?) and the vast majority of their users encode at the default 128kbps AAC. Quantity, not quality.

[Vidiot]

I'm thinking real estate (coax or optical or both?) and the vast majority of their users encode at the default 128kbps AAC. Quantity, not quality.
This won't be an issue, once Apple is able to increase the storage capacity of their current models.

In a speech earlier this year, Steve Jobs predicted that the day of the 1TB (terabyte) iPod is closer than you might think. He also predicted that hard drives were going away, and this will all be NAND flash memory -- like USB thumb drives. The thought of a 1TB flash drive is kinda scary. Then, having several thousand lossless albums on a handheld device will be fairly easy to do.

Note also that Apple has already announced that they're pushing to release all of their music as 256K AAC files, without copy-protection. EMI's catalog is supposed to be up any day now (as announced just a few weeks ago). I personally think all audio compression sounds like crap compared with lossless, but there's no question that 256K is a huge improvement over 128K.

[guitarguy]

I'm thinking real estate (coax or optical or both?) and the vast majority of their users encode at the default 128kbps AAC. Quantity, not quality.

I thought that too. I don't see why they could not use a combo jack that is both S/PDIF and 1/8" analog like the jack on the Airport Express. The DAC they use definitely has the capability for S/PDIF as some hack sites have pointed out.

I would be happy with them bringing digital to the dock connector and then maybe having an upgraded dock with digital out.

Speaking of which - is anyone familiar with a fairly low cost and small portable A/D converter that could be used with an iPod or similar device?

[ChristinasDream]

You know, I just did a comparrison between my 4th and 5th gen, and the 4th sounds quite a bit better. Midrange seems to be a bit more present than on my video.

[LesPaul666]

I thought that too. I don't see why they could not use a combo jack that is both S/PDIF and 1/8" analog like the jack on the Airport Express. The DAC they use definitely has the capability for S/PDIF as some hack sites have pointed out.

I would be happy with them bringing digital to the dock connector and then maybe having an upgraded dock with digital out.

Speaking of which - is anyone familiar with a fairly low cost and small portable A/D converter that could be used with an iPod or similar device?

Headroom makes a somewhat small battery-powered D/A converter. In all honesty, really don't think it would cost much to add a digital output to the iPod to included by Apple on future units. MSB has a mod and a dock, but the ticket is quite a bit more than I'm willing to pay for a digital D/A-ready IPod.

[vonwegen]

You know, I just did a comparrison between my 4th and 5th gen, and the 4th sounds quite a bit better. Midrange seems to be a bit more present than on my video.

My 1G sounds best of all the ones I have, followed in sound quality by my 1G Nano, my Mini, with both my 3Gs at the bottom. I use a portable headphone amp to add more lower midrange & bass to my Etymotic E6i earbuds, and it does make a difference. By the way, the Etymotics allow me to hear all sorts of hidden details I've never heard before in songs - I do recommend them.

[JLGB]

This is good imo..and I hate them gadgets lol!! http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php MSB Technology’s new iLink, is the world’s only iPod docking station that offers a true digital audio output

[recstar24]

I pod & audiophile is an oxymoron. The distortion @ <1% & the S/N ratio in the low 70dbs aren`t bad. The killer is the freq. resp. <200Hz & >10kHz.

http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/934/index5.html

Here's another set of measurements, from Stereophile. In the previous link the reviewer does not disclose how exactly the measurements are taken, with what software and equipment. JA is more transparent with his testing controls.

[JLGB]

Check out Absolute Sound June/July 2007 issue with review.... http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php