turntable upgrade question [Archive]

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winged creature

05-22-2007, 05:54 PM

vinyl anachronist

05-22-2007, 07:47 PM

Ive been reading alot on these forums that the Rega P1 is a great entry table but the P3 is more ideal because of its "upgradeability". Im just unfamiliar what you guys mean by that, isnt it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well???

If anything, it's the P1 that has more upgradeability, since most dealers are offering "upgrade kits" that consist of a glas platter and felt mat. Plus, many people are going to a better Ortofon cart.

When it comes to Regas, I think the P2 is much more upgradeable than the P3, since the RB250 is more easily moded than the RB300.

If you are going to upgrade a P3, then the Groovetracer mods are the best.

And as far as asking "isn't it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well?", what's wrong with getting a nice turntable that plays vinyl even better? That's the essence of the hobby, isn't it?!?

Jay F

05-23-2007, 04:47 AM

And as far as asking "isn't it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well?", what's wrong with getting a nice turntable that plays vinyl even better? That's the essence of the hobby, isn't it?!?

Not for everyone. Listening to music is the essence of my hobby. Tweaking equipment is something else entirely. Tweaking assumes my P3, for instance, isn't good enough the way it is. If that's true, why buy it? If I need to make something "even better" after I've bought it, who needs it?

This is the essence of OCD symptoms, IMO, not of the hobby.

bobrex

05-23-2007, 06:00 AM

Not for everyone. Listening to music is the essence of my hobby. Tweaking equipment is something else entirely. Tweaking assumes my P3, for instance, isn't good enough the way it is. If that's true, why buy it? If I need to make something "even better" after I've bought it, who needs it?

This is the essence of OCD symptoms, IMO, not of the hobby.

No, it just means that the table was built to a price point and that you can improve it for a few dollars more. The table is fine, but there are better tables available. Some people may not have the cash for a better table but will be willing to improve the piece when finances permit. What's wrong with that?

Now upgrading a Caliburn, that's OCD! :D

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 06:44 AM

Not for everyone. Listening to music is the essence of my hobby. Tweaking equipment is something else entirely. Tweaking assumes my P3, for instance, isn't good enough the way it is. If that's true, why buy it? If I need to make something "even better" after I've bought it, who needs it?

This is the essence of OCD symptoms, IMO, not of the hobby.

It's obsessive-compulsive to take something you have and want to make it better? Really? I guess every inventor and every innovator who ever lived should have run straight to their psychiatrist for therapy!

Maybe you want to rethink your reply, eh?

Jay F

05-23-2007, 08:16 AM

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 08:21 AM

Nope. If I want something better, I'll buy a better turntable.

You, otoh, may tweak 'til your tweaker falls off. :D

It may cheaper to tweak to achieve better results. Hey, but it's your money. Do whatever you want with it. :shake:

81828384

05-23-2007, 08:22 AM

I think an upgrade path is desirable in a turntable. It is fun to buy something, listen to it for a while, then buy something else to upgrade/complement the original something, and see how it changes the sound.

Jay F

05-23-2007, 08:27 AM

It's obsessive-compulsive to take something you have and want to make it better? Really? I guess every inventor and every innovator who ever lived should have run straight to their psychiatrist for therapy!

Maybe you want to rethink your reply, eh?Nope. If I want a better turntable, I'll buy a better turntable. One of the reasons I post here instead of Vinyl Asylum is their "It Isn't Mine Until I've Really ****ed With It" ethos. If I were the newbie OP, and someone answered "Isn't (tweaking) what the hobby is all about?"), I would probably infer that there is something not right about Rega's turntables (which I don't have to tell you is not true).

You are, of course, welcome to tweak 'til your tweaker falls off. :D I just don't think your answer helped the OP.

MusicMtnMonkey

05-23-2007, 08:42 AM

isnt it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well???

If you really think you will feel this way in short/medium distance future, pick a table you like for what it is out of the box, and go with it. Don't worry about distant futures. Equipment is lucky if it doesn't break before distant futures occur.

There is nothing wrong with being just a listener. Dig deep, do you like to solve problems or want to spend all you time listening to music exclusively? If you Only want to listen, upgradability matters none to you and choose the table you like now, spend the rest of your time and money collecting vinyls. You can just buy a new table if you need a change.

Either table will "play vinyl" and make enjoyable sounds, if you just want to sit and listen. If you are picky about sound and enjoy tinkering then table "upgradability" will matter to you.

If you like mechanical/electrical challenges and want to "tinker" with your table, my opinion/advice is get a used VPI HW TT.

If you like to spend most of your time listening and very little tinkering, get one of the Rega's and enjoy!

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 09:44 AM

Nope. If I want a better turntable, I'll buy a better turntable. One of the reasons I post here instead of Vinyl Asylum is their "It Isn't Mine Until I've Really ****ed With It" ethos. If I were the newbie OP, and someone answered "Isn't (tweaking) what the hobby is all about?"), I would probably infer that there is something not right about Rega's turntables (which I don't have to tell you is not true).

You are, of course, welcome to tweak 'til your tweaker falls off. :D I just don't think your answer helped the OP.

First of all, tweaking and upgrading are not the same thing. Second, I never said that tweaking is what the hobby was all about. Being an audiophile means trying to get the best sound possible to maximize your enjoyment of music. Third, I very specifically answered the OP's questions, so maybe you shouldn't presume to speak for them.

There's nothing wrong with buying a product and being happy with it forever. There is something wrong with being in denial about making uninformed buying decisions, though.

winged creature

05-23-2007, 09:54 AM

well for me sound does matter, except im a fresh college grad with little to no money, so im trying to get the best sound for as little as i can spend. That being said i still dont know if the P1 is worth getting.

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 09:58 AM

winged creature

05-23-2007, 10:10 AM

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 10:24 AM

well i want to spend around 400, but i dunno if i should save up for the P3, or get a new cd player or upgrade my speakers, im lost in the world of hi-fi :P. If i get the P1 i have money to upgrade my speakers, but im wondering if the P3 is really worth it. Its all very confusing.

Do you have any way of hearing them for yourself? That might clear up a lot of it. I think the P3 is way above the P1 in terms of performance, but the P1 is actually much better if you get the glass platter and the cartridge upgrade. It will still be under $500. Or, maybe the P2, at $525, is a nice compromise. I own a P2, and it's much closer to the P3 than the P1, even with the upgrades. I heartily recommend the P2 to everyone, but I'm kind of iffy on the P1 overall.

Remember that the source component is the most important part of the chain. Garbage in, garbage out. A great turntable with good speakers will sound better than a good turntable with great speakers. I think you should get the P3 if it's what you really want. It's definitely the type of 'table you can own for the rest of your life and be happy with. They are very reliable and almost never break. Just change the belt every so often. (BTW, Rega used to say every "few years." Now they're saying the belt needs to be changed annually. Perhaps that's a result of the speed variation issues.)

Vinyl-Addict

05-23-2007, 10:40 AM

Ive been reading alot on these forums that the Rega P1 is a great entry table but the P3 is more ideal because of its "upgradeability".

I think this is because the P1 really isn't worth spending money on substantial upgrades. The glass platter is worthwhile but beyond that, save your money for a better table.

Im just unfamiliar what you guys mean by that, isnt it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well???

I would recommend buying a used P3 on Audiogon. The new P3 will be out shortly and there should be some great deals on used P3's. If you have a local Rega dealer he may give you a good discount on an existing P3 to make room for the new model. :)

TONEPUB

05-23-2007, 12:08 PM

I think what Jay F. misses somewhat is that it is a different experience for everyone..

Some are content to leave well enough alone. Some people live to tweek/adjust/upgrade whatever you would like to call it and for some of those people the chase is far more exciting than the destintion.

For still others, I think it is really a matter of the more you listen, the more you hear and hence the more you might like to hear.

While it's great to say "if I want more sound Ill buy a better turntable", some people might not want to sell their P3 for about half of what they paid for it and step up to a P5, 7 or 9, but the idea of getting a better counterweight or subplatter for a couple hundred bucks makes good sense.

Again, what is a perfectly reasonable solution for you may not be for someone else....

bangsezmax

05-23-2007, 12:45 PM

For still others, I think it is really a matter of the more you listen, the more you hear and hence the more you might like to hear.
Bingo.

And not every tweak has to be difficult or expensive. It behooves anyone with a vinyl rig to get the most out of it.

Jay F

05-23-2007, 01:32 PM

I think what Jay F. misses somewhat is that it is a different experience for everyone..I'm glad you're here to translate for me, Jeff.

:wave: :righton: :D :winkgrin: :love: :agree: :cool: :goodie: :laugh: :edthumbs:

aviserated

05-23-2007, 02:00 PM

I just ordered this Denon with built in phono preamp.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-trjO9ph9ND8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=denon+turntable&i=033DP300F

wgriel

05-23-2007, 02:46 PM

well i want to spend around 400, but i dunno if i should save up for the P3, or get a new cd player or upgrade my speakers, im lost in the world of hi-fi :P. If i get the P1 i have money to upgrade my speakers, but im wondering if the P3 is really worth it. Its all very confusing.

I am absolutely no authority in these matters, so take my opinion with a big grain of salt. However, I would say that how you allocate your money depends on what you've got now, and what your listening habits are.

If you are talking about $400 CDN, I would probably be looking into the used turntable market or saving up until you can spend a bit more. I recently got into the "budget" turntable market and picked up a Pro-Ject Xpression II, but I still spent quite a bit more than your initial budget. I am thrilled with the results though :D

As to other upgrades, I guess that would depend on your level of satisfaction with what you've got. At the low end, I *personally* wouldn't be looking to upgrade a CD player unless I had some specific problems with what I've got. I just don't think you'll get the same bang for the buck as you will with upgrading speakers or a turntable. Now, if you are unhappy with your speakers, I would upgrade those first, simply because that effects your satisfaction with everything else.

To echo what Marc said, if it's at all possible to do some listening you'll be able to make a much more informed decision. I'm sure there are some dealers in Vancouver that will allow you to do that - if not, hop the ferry over to here and drop in on Soundhounds. At the budget end of things they carry Pro-Ject and Rega so you can do some comparisons. You can also try some more upscale turntables just to see what some of the fuss is about.

Good luck,

Bill

vinyl anachronist

05-23-2007, 03:37 PM

Bingo.

And not every tweak has to be difficult or expensive. It behooves anyone with a vinyl rig to get the most out of it.

Exactly. And I understand those people who want plug-and-play stuff. I'm that way sometimes...I'm far from the biggest tweaker you'll ever find in the audio world. I just have a problem with someone saying that anyone who wants to improve the performance of their gear through tweaking or upgrading has OCD. That's just nonsense, not to mention offensive.

Jay F

05-23-2007, 06:25 PM

delete, please

Jay F

05-23-2007, 06:31 PM

Exactly. And I understand those people who want plug-and-play stuff. I'm that way sometimes...I'm far from the biggest tweaker you'll ever find in the audio world. I just have a problem with someone saying that anyone who wants to improve the performance of their gear through tweaking or upgrading has OCD. That's just nonsense, not to mention offensive.I apologize if I offended you, Marc. You have been very helpful to me. I just didn't think emphasizing upgrading was the right answer for the OP. Just My Opinion. Obviously. Again, sorry. :wave:

xyyyy

05-23-2007, 07:34 PM

Ive been reading alot on these forums that the Rega P1 is a great entry table but the P3 is more ideal because of its "upgradeability". Im just unfamiliar what you guys mean by that, isnt it enough that you get a nice turntable that plays vinyl well???

Ways to "upgrade" a P1 and P3 (IMHO):

P1- add the glass platter, add the Rega thicker felt mat, better cartridge, use of a wall rack or other rigid stand.

P3- use of an improved cartridge, wall rack or other rigid stand. With the new P3-24 the optional speed control may have merit, especially with the option of switching between 33 1/3 and 45 rpm.

Ways to "change" a P1 and P3 (tweak stuff-counter weights, different platters, etc). With these changes, I have one question- did Gandy design it? If not, I don't want to alter a proven design that that is very musical.:righton: Personally, I'm too busy enjoying record collecting and playing em.:goodie:

However, how you spend your money is your business.:)