Interesting ebay item...

[Holy Zoo]

"Marantz 8B tube amp used by Steve Hoffman~DCC"
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1279612206

[Sckott]

That's an authentic Steve-bay. Those Siemens EL-34 output tubes are incredible (thanks for the tip, Steve) not to mention the cage is in RARE form. Steve's home of wayward amps. He takes great care of everything. .

[petzi]

Is EL-34 the same as E34L ?

[Evan]

Talk about bragging rights! If only I had hit the lottery.... :mad:

I truely hope they find a worthy home ;)

[Sckott]

E34L is a EL34 designation. They're really one in the same, but an E34L are Tesla EL-34's in the now (JJ). They're cheap and well rounded for guitar amps. "Real men" use El-34's and NOS Mullards, Simeins and some Telefunken's (as tubes have been known to be same but different depending on when they were made). Russian Svetlana's are also high on my list, so far.

Tesla tubes are good for chucking against the dumpster outside in the dark. Neat explosions and gas-flashes. Impress your friends!

"Wow, cool tubes doode. Huh huh. Huh huh huh."

[ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]

[wes]

Hey Scott what kind of tube preamp are you using?

I just bought Van Altine's Super PAS 3i, and I'm happy with it. It came stocked with four phillips 12ax7's. They sound good. I'd like to try Mullards or Telefunken. Do you know if Telefunkens are still being made? If so, are they any good?

[Sckott]

Telefunken is long since gone atta the tubie biz, I'm sorry to say, but if Sovtek starts to pull some mustard around in the Hi-Fi world (tube amps are becoming more popular now, and it's mostly Steve's fault) then maybe they'll come back and make tubes again. Their website is not fully up yet... http://www.telefunken.de/ and is your German as good as your English? Danke Shoen. :)

Telefunken didn't *always* make "their" tubes, btw. They often took on Mullard, RCA or others (forgot the combo of tubes they OEM'd) and relabeled them as theirs. Another "rare" tube I use in my Dynaco's are "Shelid*". Shield* never made tubes either, they relabeled good NOS used tubes. Mine are Amperex, from looking closely. Their real "purdy" tubes, as they used real colourful citrus-looking chalk to brand em. I should post a picture of em. I have those in my modded Dynaco. Quiet, stable, rock solid.

My preamp is SS. A Rotel RTC-965. Why SS? Well it drives my 2 Dynaco ST-70 amps with a sweet, tuby sound and also lets me support DTS, DD and more. The Bridge between old and new tech. I have some DTS Cds made from 24-bit mastered 4-track Quad reels made in the early 70s that I cannot turn my head from. Moodies' "On The Threshold Of A Dream" quad IS the difinitive article, and the MOFI's don't come close. Rotel let me re-create a classic 4-channel quad sound with the 2 dynacos, a DTS playback...

Those Philips, are prob. ECG tubes which might be 80's NOS, white-boxed military stock. Very common, most of it's from large Govt. auction. They're good, not crap definately, but you can find some RCA NOS 12AX7's cheap if you try. Best are boxplate or ribbed plate Mullards. Ebay, the usual NOS tube sites and the Sovteks are good tubes, IMHO much better than the Philips ECG's. All the kits sold now are mostly stocked with Philips ECGs, including the AES stuff, and it's okay. Besides, there are many tubes better and MUCH worse than those. Get some NOS Fisher/Mullards. Use the Philips for spares. I sold my 12AU7's for lunch money. No worries.

[petzi]

Thanks for the insight, Sckott :)

I was thinking of buying this tube amp, it´s from a pretty good German electronics supplier:

tube power amp (http://www.elv.de/shopping/ArtikelDetail.asp?SessionId=000515687702 33135402&Stufe=2&Referenz=319%2D42&Gruppe=VT%2DLB&Menue=Ja)

(the picture is without the tube cage)

This thing has 4 x E34L, 2 x ECC 81 and 2 x ECC 82.

They sent me the circuit diagram, and the decription says it is not a pure class A but rather something they call "ultralinear circuit" IIRC. It is supposed to be more power efficient. :confused:
It seems to be a decent quality amp, and I will try to find out who makes the tubes that come with it.

They also make a preamp based on 2 x ECC82 and 2 x ECC83.

Michael

[Sckott]

Well, a class A that ain't, ain't. Pure and simple. Although with the tubes you've given, it's very possible you'll get a lot of wet sound. I can amaturely look at the diag, but I'm sure it's a class "A" idea that's parallel powered, or something like that. A ECC81=12AT7, and a ECC82 is a 12AU7 (or my fave the 6189 RCA greenface) The tubes they're gonna give you are what's available as NOS by definition, or Russian (DOUBT it!). A German tech in his right mind isn't going to build em with Chinese tubes, I hope. The tubes make it sound like a Dynaco idea with more balls. Hope you got good drivers!

Well with whatever you get, the tubes are going to be the equivilant of the soft tires you get on a new car. They don't make it a point to give you the best damn tires when you leave the showroom, for the most part, and this will be much of that.

A lot of the truely "new" NOS tubes people throw in new amps aren't rare or expensive. If they were, they'd lose a competitive edge pricewize - to the consumer. There are ALWAYS new sights of NOS rare unused tubes, but once they hit the market...EBAY TIME! Tons of tubes are usually sold from widows of tube-heads, ones that build ham radios and whorde tubes like a squirrel until they pass away. The widows who know, ebay.

However, a smaat tubehead isn't going to leave it like that. In fact, one with good money is going to dig his heels in and HUNT for the gold rings.

Okay, you KNOW about the EL-34's, so...

12AT7's - Actually RCA made a good few of em, in fact so did Telefunken. They're plentiful and cheep too. Seimens are available from thetubestore.com for $30 a piece, NOS dated 1961. I'd start with those after you break in your Philips, which is what you'll get - betcha. If I were you, squirrel a couple of the Siemens SOON.

12AU7's - Damn. I did try a 12AU7 Mullard blackplate and didn't like the sound as much as (once again) my 6189W's made by RCA. I have 4 NOS extras that I bought cheap. I would also say the Amperex's are good, not incredible, and the Philips 12Au7 were "ok" but not as quiet as the RCA greenies. I use 12AU7's in my Phono preamp, one flies solo amongst a pair of 6SL7 RCA black butts with the side getters. Steve thought they were great, and I agree whole-heartedly. http://www.thetubestore.com unfortunately has "OK" 12AU7 tubes. Try hunting a pack on Ebay.

To be honest, take a look at ebay and see if you can find some NOS RCA 6189w's instead (to replace 12AU7's). They have a wonderful pocket of quiet power, if that makes sense ;)

A ECC83 is a 12AX7. People fight hard for these little guys. NOS is rare acorss the board, some more than others. Telefunken smooth plate is what I would get, if I had the chance.

-Sckott

PS. I just meant to reference Svetlana EL34's, not the Sovteks in post from earlier; sorry.

[ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]

[petzi]

One of the biggest tube manufacturers in Germany was Valvo. Most tubes I found in radio receivers were Valvos. I wonder why they never get mentioned these days. There must be a significant number of new Valvo tubes around.

Michael

[Sckott]

Valvo tubes are really high quality, regarding some of their originals, but like Mullard, they sold huge numbers to Telefunken, Philips and others. There's a TON of Valvo tubes around that have been relabeled with the Telefunken diamond on em since they've bought Valvo tubes as early as the mid 30's. Valvo also made caps, small motors, ect... Some of the older tubes are highly regarded, and from where you live they are possibly more plentiful!

BUT what I would say, is that your Valvo tubes are either Philips, MAYBE Mullard but what one would really have to look for is date and factory codes on the tube, sometimes on the glass, sometimes at the base. Earlier tubes have charactoristics and PVM codes, where date and manufacturer are etched on the glass by code.

I'd say buying Valvos won't be a bad idea, but they're gonna be Philips most likely if they're truely NOS never used. Ya never knowwww.....

[Gary]

Sckott, I've come across (and bought) six Telefunken 12AX7's and three Mullard 12AX7's. What you say makes sense (obviously) and it seems every Telefunken tube is labelled differently, although they all have the triangle at the bottom.

Steve said that the Telefunken 12AX7 was the one to get. Mullards seem to be very good, too. But if Telefunken bought tubes from others how can one tell if it's a true Telefunken (manufactured by Telefunken)? Is there a web site or list somewhere that details all the differences for identfication purposes? :)

PS Am I right in assuming that a true Telefunken would be better than a Mullard?

[ October 05, 2001: Message edited by: Gary ]

[Sckott]

If it's a right-triangle that starts before the code, it's a Dutch made, ECC83, most likely Philips made for Telefunken and Mullard. They're very good, so I hear.

Above info Kevin Deal. I don't own any 12AX7's :p

[tomcat]

This may be interesting for or fellow German and other European tube friends:
There is a guy in Germany where my dealer gets his tubes from. His name is Roeder. I have no idea where his business is located; there may be some information in German hi-fi magazine ads. I have also no clue what tubes he sales because he wipes out the original labels and puts his own codes onto these tubes.
Just for the 12AU7/ECC82 tube - the one I need for my Conrad-Johnson PV11L (nice gear!) - he offers a variety of new and (as I have been said) NOS tubes with some 4 or 5 electrical quality selection grades and (hold your breath) no less than 27 (!!!) neatly listed sound characteristics. Every single tube is measured, listened to and selected. Awesome.
Best to all of you
Thomas

[Sckott]

Thanks Thomas.

Tubes are really hunt and peck. It's a LOT like record collecting. Sometimes you get a warm feeling finding some NOS Amperex's for $1/ea for spares at a "flea mahket". Sometimes you GOTTA HAVE Mullards with less than 1,000 hours on em, and you go to eBay and bend over. (YEEEOUCH!)

It's fun. Those shiny, electricity-eating thingies that would make Dr. Sigmond Froid say "Yeah, it's a male thing, those tubes."

Experiment. Nothing wrong with rolling average tubes for curiosity.