Forever Young Series - Mastering Question

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Gary Freed, Apr 28, 2007.

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  1. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The Forever Young CD series is mastered in Japan.

    I have several titles some of them Led Zeppelin and on my system they sound better than any other digital version I've heard.

    I believe that they are remasters, but I can't find dates or who did the transfers for the mastering.

    Can anyone shed light on this remastering program and who is doing the fine
    work for the titles in this series.
     
  2. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    Some are pretty close (identical?) to the US Atlantics where titles were issued in the US and Japan.
     
  3. Nearly all 'Forever Young' CD's used the 1st pressing mastering. So in the case of Led Zeppelin, if Barry Diament did the original mastering, that's the mastering the 'Forever Young' CD would have.
     
  4. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Gary, these are Warner Bros./Atlantic price reduced versions of their Japanese 1st pressing siblings that use the same mastering with a touch better detail. I find both of these pressings superior to the US and European pressings even though they use the same source.
     
  5. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Thanks Guys,

    I really like the sound of these CD's and plan to search out additional titles to add to my library.
     
  6. dude

    dude Senior Member

    Location:
    milwaukee wi usa
    There was a Forever Young Zep II on Ebay recently and the owner insisted it said Marino/Page remaster. I would've thought they were the first issues.
     
  7. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    The "Forever Young" moniker was used in various reissue programs for Warner-Pioneer/WEA Japan/Warner Japan. The series being discussed here is limited to the first one from the late 80s/the early 90s with the catalog numbers that have 20P2 prefix. Some later issues from the same reissue series came with the 18P2 (some Yes titles, for instance) and WPCP (some Deep Purple titles and Ramones) prefices.

    The LZII you looked at on eBay must be from a later reissue campaign. No reason to doubt it is not a Page/Marino remaster.
     
  8. wolf66

    wolf66 New Member

    Location:
    Austria
    I concur with the OP and Dave that these series is great !

    So far I have all the LZ CDs, YES "Fragile" ( the version to have IMO), and Deep Purple's "In Rock" (Although this disc uses the IMO inferior US version without the intro on Speed king :shake:)

    However I have recently purchased a 20P2 version of Deep Purple's "Fireball" and it sounds inferior to the original EMI Made in UK disc - I think Roland has also stated that the best version of "Fireball" is the UK.

    Would anyone know how to obtain a complete list of the titles issued in the 20P2 series ??
     
    danielbravo likes this.
  9. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I could be wrong on this, since I purchased most of my Japan pressings before the 20P2 series; but I think that the 20P2 "series" was just a price reduction across the board that did not necessarily represent a remastering of the title?

    Not unlike the avalanche of paper jacket CD's that are the rage right now. Some are remastered, most are not, and there is no rhyme or reason to it. The only point is the paper jacket.
     
  10. chargrove

    chargrove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    I also have the FY 20P2 of Fragile and it sounds identical to a same vintage US aluminum-to-center PDO pressing. I double checked the peak levels on EAC and they came out the same. I realize that doesn't always tell the story (numerous threads about that), but I can tell no difference whatsoever. And they both sound great! Also have two of the early Zeppelins and they are awesome.
     
  11. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    The ones I've heard that do have a 32XD sibling do sound different. I think you're correct that they were "supposed" to be the same and just less expensive, but that's not what I'm hearing so far.
     
  12. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    I have post it here several times, I have the Sammy-era Van Halen Forever Young CDs and they sound like remasters to me. Excellent bass, drums and bass guitar are definetely there while they were lacking or hidden within the mix on the current international releases. Maybe some of the Forever Young CDs were digitally tweaked in Japan from the original masterings but on the case of these Van Halens the end result is damn good.
     
    4stringking73 and Panama Jack like this.
  13. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    And I have posted just a few spots above that there have been more than one reissue series with the moniker "Forever Young." Please do not confuse the matter. We're only talking about the "Forever Young" series of CDs from the late 80s and the early 90s with 20P2 and, with some exceptions, WPCP prefixes.
     
  14. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Which has better detail? :confused: The Forever Young or the first pressings?
     
  15. Just to name a few I have, are the following...

    AC/DC - Back In Black (20P2 2433)
    Cars - Panorama (20P2 2342)
    Chicago - 16 (20P2 2006)
    Alice Cooper - Flush The Fashion (WPCP 3497)
    Don Henley - Building The Perfect Beast (WPCP 3501)

    I have some others, but the ones listed above are the most accessible at the moment.
     
  16. wolf66

    wolf66 New Member

    Location:
    Austria

    Thanks Scott.

    How is this one sounding ?
     
  17. Funny you should ask.

    I have a West German pressed CD, along with the 20P2 CD of 'BIB'. I did a waveform comparison of the two, and as I suspected, the waveform was damn near identicle.

    However, when I gave them a listen, the '20P2' appealed to my ears more. It just seems to have a little bit more detail, and clarity.
     
  18. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    Also in the "Forever Young Series"
    Echo and the Bunnyman "Ocean Rain" 20P2-2359
    And, I have a copy of Steely Dan "Aja" that I believe was part of the series with a catalog # of 20P2-2055.
     
  19. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Question for Dave.
     
  20. Dave, I once owned the 32XD and the 20P2 (Forever Young) version of Machine Head. I tried really hard to hear a difference, but on my system and/or with my ears, I could not make out a difference (I'm not saying there isn't one). If there is a difference between these two, it is very small and I would think that most people won't be able to notice it.

    I was able to hear a very small difference when I compared these two Japanese pressings to the US WB of Machine Head.

    Anyhow, I kept the 20P2 pressing since it was mint and also had the OBI, plus all my other Deep Purple Japanese CD's are from the Forever Young series. I sold the 32XD on the forum to somebody.

    Did you ever compare the 32XD and the 20P2 of Machine Head directly? If so, did you hear a small difference? Or was it with other "pairs" that you were able to hear a difference? Was it only very subtle?
     
  21. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Dave, just want to clarify the Forever Young's (20P2) have "a touch better detail" , than their 1st Japanese Pressing (32XD) siblings.

    thanks, RL

    P.S. I used 32XD as an example as I have Zepp discs in both that and the Forever Young series, but not both on the same album(s).
     
  22. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    The 1st definitely, but the benefits between the two may be lost on some systems.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Hi Roland :wave:

    No I've never compared the 32XD and the 20P2, but the 32XD is so close to my Canadian WB's el-cheapo copy your results are truly not surprising. This one is for us guys who want that extra 1% only and should be of no concern to anyone who has the original US or Canadian originals.
     
  24. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    For me it's the exact opposite, the 32XD's have better detail.

    I just want to touch on something here that may explain why you believe the 20P2 might be more detailed. On a less revealing system or listening with the volume only being moderate can give the illusion that some 32XD's are lacking because of their being more open and with the breath of life AKA ambient details. When the breath of life is removed, like most of the 20P2's, you get a more focused sound due to slight compression, not the added digital workstation kind BTW, and narrowing the sound stage. This illusion will disappear between the two at louder volumes or with a more revealing system.
     
  25. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Thanks For clearing this up Dave. Since I have no duplication of titles on 32XD and Forever young I can't do a compare. I will say that the 32XD's I have sound amazing. As for Forever Young I have a Zepp IV and it seems to be a little better than my W Germany target. RL
     
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