Upgrading from a Music Hall MM-F 7 to a VPI Scout

[Steve w]

I just found out I might have some extra money to use for fun and I'm debating whether or not to use it to get a VPI Scout TT. I currently have a Music Hall MMF-7 with a Clearaudio Aurum Beta S cartridge.

#1 Would there be a noticible difference in sound quality if I upgraded from the Music Hall MMF-7 to the VPI Scout if I used the Clearaudio Aurum Beta S cartridge on the VPI Scout?

#2 Is buying a used TT, in this case a VPI Scout a good way to be able to buy a higher quality TT than I could afford new as long as the TT isn't more than a year old?

[WHitese]

There are plenty of Scouts on audiogon, and most people I believe keep the original packing, which is quite good. I loved mine.

[mtodde]

That should be a good upgrade. I went from a MMF-5 to a Scout and the difference was huge.

[Tubeman]

That should be a good upgrade. I went from a MMF-5 to a Scout and the difference was huge.

same here

[TONEPUB]

Good upgrade and definitely see if you can buy a nice clean used one to save a few bucks! More money for records!

[Metralla]

I agree that local pickup can be worth pursuing - and you get to meet another audiophile. I'd give it a shot for a while.

[Pinknik]

I just found out via email that you can now purchase the new VPI SuperPlatter for the Scout (or, in my case, an HW-19) for $1,200. Or maybe not. :)

[fmuakkassa]

Let him buy the turntable first! That's quite an expensive upgrade.
The Scout has been praised a lot and is an excellent turntable (I have the Scoutmaster).

[Pinknik]

Let him buy the turntable first! That's quite an expensive upgrade.
The Scout has been praised a lot and is an excellent turntable (I have the Scoutmaster).

Yes, I will. I was kidding, but I initially thought that might be a cool upgrade for my HW-19, until I realized it cost almost as much as what I paid for the table and arm. I'll be holding off too.

[Steve w]

What's the most a used TT in excellent shape is worth? Half the price of a new one???? :help:
I'm talking about TT's that are still available new of course so I don't mean ones that are not in production anymore.

[MikeyH]

What's the most a used TT in excellent shape is worth? Half the price of a new one???? :help:
I'm talking about TT's that are still available new of course so I don't mean ones that are not in production anymore.

While that's a good ball park, and about what I'd pay, in fact prices are nearer 75% even on eBay (and not including postage). The only real deals on new stuff are overstock and refurbished. These do turn up, though. You can find really good prices locally in ads and in salvage stores.

In fact even yesterday someone dumped an Akai turntable outside the local record store - it was there about an hour (solid looking belt drive, S arm, no cartridge, good cover) I've done my share of picking these up myself.

If audio stuff is new and virtually unused (even cartridges) the price is still often high. Look at Grado wood-bodies like the Sonata, regularly fetch close to retail with only 30 hours on them. The only bargains are with buy it now, and there is a lot of competition.

[HiFi Guy 008]

While that's a good ball park, and about what I'd pay, in fact prices are nearer 75% even on eBay (and not including postage). The only real deals on new stuff are overstock and refurbished. These do turn up, though. You can find really good prices locally in ads and in salvage stores.

If audio stuff is new and virtually unused (even cartridges) the price is still often high. Look at Grado wood-bodies like the Sonata, regularly fetch close to retail with only 30 hours on them. The only bargains are with buy it now, and there is a lot of competition.

Good point. I've noticed the same thing.

My question:
Where is all of this "competition" coming from?

There is indeed a resurgence in vinyl, and used pressings are being snapped up by collectors and the dreaded hoarders (I'm trying to resist becoming one myself) but does it explain the higher prices of the used better tables? What drives used-market prices up? Are there turntable hoarders too?

One dealer suggested to me that buyers in Asian countries were snapping up a lot of tables of a certain make and model, from eBay and Audiogon, and the weak US dollar was part of the attraction. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I see a lot of "how much is shipping to Singapore?" questions on eBay turntables. (I do not mean any offense to our friends in Asia):)
Interesting.

[mtodde]

What's the most a used TT in excellent shape is worth? Half the price of a new one???? :help:
I'm talking about TT's that are still available new of course so I don't mean ones that are not in production anymore.

When I upgraded to the Aries 3 my Scout sold for $1200 on eBay.

[mtodde]

When I bought my Scout there was a 5 or 6 week wait to get one which has a lot to do with why the resale prices are so high...and it is a great table for the money.

[MikeyH]

Good point. I've noticed the same thing.

My question:
Where is all of this "competition" coming from?

There is indeed a resurgence in vinyl, and used pressings are being snapped up by collectors and the dreaded hoarders (I'm trying to resist becoming one myself) but does it explain the higher prices of the used better tables? What drives used-market prices up? Are there turntable hoarders too?

One dealer suggested to me that buyers in Asian countries were snapping up a lot of tables of a certain make and model, from eBay and Audiogon, and the weak US dollar was part of the attraction. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I see a lot of "how much is shipping to Singapore?" questions on eBay turntables. (I do not mean any offense to our friends in Asia):)
Interesting.

I'm guilty of hoarding.. but I've got enough PL 12D's now (three).

There's a couple of major ebay buyers of 'working' tables from the 70's and 80's who later resell with good descriptions, copied manuals at a good profit. These guys are often the only bidders on Technics, National, JVC tables of all types. Even then, the price ($10-40) with postage is high for me (my lowest price is free, I've picked up more than a few off the street on garbage day, and typically pay under $25 in stores.) These same guys are regulars on the 'parts' auctions, too.

I think a lot of buyers want a bargain from ebay and may not consider all the ramifications - we see enough support going on here for both high and low end tables where the user has only a slight idea of what a record player does and how it does it (i.e. about as much as they need to know about a CD player to make it work).

Some tables that used to be a bargain are no longer so (thinking of the early Garrards and Thorens, now joined by the Empire series). However, that shouldn't stop people buying good examples at the current prices. Many will prefer a TD124 to a Scout or scoutmaster. It was easier when a TD124 was only $200. Most buyers of these are looking for their second or third audiophile table, often for 'that classic mono system' that is very popular now.

[LeeS]

I went from a MMF-5 to a Scout and the difference was huge.


I can back this up. I heard Todd's system before and after the upgrade and it wasn't even close. Both the Scout and Scoutmaster are great value for $ choices.

[Steve w]

A Scout just sold for $909 on e-bay tonight. I missed getting a bid in in the last seconds. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

The most I was going to bid was $1001.00 so I still might not have won.

[81828384]

A Scout just sold for $909 on e-bay tonight. I missed getting a bid in in the last seconds. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

The most I was going to bid was $1001.00 so I still might not have won.

www.ezsniper.com

Trust me on this one. Its the only way I bid on anything anymore. :thumbsup:

[HiFi Guy 008]

What happens if more than one person is using that sniper program?

[81828384]

What happens if more than one person is using that sniper program?

First, there are tons of sniper services available, I just recommended ezsniper because its what I use.

Second, if two people bid the same thing at the same time with a sniper program... eBay breaks and the free market collapses because everyone's debts and balances reset to zero.

[HiFi Guy 008]

First, there are tons of sniper services available, I just recommended ezsniper because its what I use.

Second, if two people bid the same thing at the same time with a sniper program... eBay breaks and the free market collapses because everyone's debts and balances reset to zero.

:laugh:

Or the inflated prices of good turntables plummets.:agree:

[81828384]

:laugh:

Or the inflated prices of good turntables plummets.:agree:

Huzzah! Scouts for everyone! :righton:

Apologies for being a smart aleck, I honestly don't know what would happen. I guess one of the bids for one reason or another would be a nanosecond behind and would lose.

And since this has nothing to do with the topic, I'm exiting this thread now. See you all next door. :)

[wkohler]

I bid on that Scout tonight. My bid was $1003.42 and I got the page not responding crap, so someone ended up getting a good deal. The seller never responded to my question though, so I'm not worried about it.

My bid of $801 stood for a long time (up to 3 min left). Then, I bid $886 and I got screwed.

[Steve w]

I went to the VPI dealer not too far from my place tonight and bought a new Scout for $1500. They didn't have it in stock but I decided to get it from them because they said they would set up the Scout for me including taking the cartridge off my Music Hall MMF-7 and putting it on the Scout for me. I know it's probably not that hard to do but I don't want to mess something like that up. I can't wait to hear Steve and Kevin's mastering of Moondance on it.

[Steve w]

I just got my Scout yesterday. I've only been able to play it about 2 1/2 hours but I already love it. It definitly has more detail and bass than my Music Hall MMF-7 had. And that's with the same cartridge that I used in my MMF-7. (Clearaudio Aurum Beta S)