Please help me get started in vinyl again! [Archive]

Kevin Robinson

04-12-2007, 12:37 PM

I'm 37. I've managed to hold on to a few hundred records stored in the closet.
I also have some nice vintage vinyl such as a 60's mint mono pressing of Rubber Soul that I bought in the 80's at used record shops.
I've thought about getting back into vinyl for some time, especially after seeing some 180 gram Sundazed reissues at a local store. I just miss the "needle to grove" anticipation that you get from records (also see the credits for the movie "High Fidelity"). On impulse last weekend, I bought a first pressing of Moby Grape's first album. Of course, I have nothing to play it back on.
My current equipment is an Arcam AVR100 receiver, an Oppo DV-970HD that will play just about anything I throw at it digitally, with a AVR200 satellite/subwoofer system by Mirage. It sounds pretty good to my ears and in my small apartment.
My Arcam has no phono input. I know I need a phono preamp. The Parasound Zphono at Acoustic Sounds for $150 seems like it has some good reviews. Any opinions?
For a turntable, I'm thinking of the Rega P1. This seems to come with with an Ortofon OM5E cart. Again, any thoughts?
I usually go with BlueJean cable for my interconnects. Any reason to differ?
All told, I'd like for my first jump back into vinyl to cost me no more than $600-$700. I guess I can always upgrade.
As someone whose experience with vinyl back in the day was always with an integrated Sony or Pioneer turntable/cassete/receiver system from Sony or Pioneer bought at J.C. Penney, I hope Ill see the "vinyl difference" with this system.
Thanks for any help.

Baba O'Riley

04-12-2007, 12:38 PM

doubtingthomas

04-12-2007, 02:34 PM

first, all the above

Second would add whatever way you decide to go
you will be blown away by what cleaning(washing)your vinyl will do to the quality of sound-there are excellent threads about this subject check them out -the return on investment even for diy washing systems is amazing

Finally I have a thorens td160-stock arm- with a stanton 681 cartridge-it's heaven! Don't overlook vintage Thorens, Ar, etc. turntables-they're out there and capable of leaving even the most jaded slack jawed!

Good luck!:righton:

DaveN

04-12-2007, 04:09 PM

Beware. Baba does not agree with the vinyl fetish. That is his choice and it is as valid as mine is. Just understand the bias.

Vinyl can be an amazing experience. Under the proper circumstances, it can sound much better than cd redbook. Under the wrong circumstances, it can be abysmal. YMMV.

Kevin Robinson

04-16-2007, 05:24 PM

Any opinions out there on the gear I'm thinking about? They sound good in a review and the price is right, but I'd love to hear some real world opinions.

vinyl anachronist

04-16-2007, 05:37 PM

If you get the Rega P1, be sure to ditch the MDF platter for a glass one. Many dealers are selling platter upgrades, incuding the felt mat, for $69. Also consider moving up from the Ortofon OM-5e to an OM-10 or 20. It'll be a big difference in sound if you do this.

wkohler

04-16-2007, 05:39 PM

The P1 is a nice table - $350 with a cartridge is not bad. It is very basic, which is good with vinyl. My problem with is the build quality. I just don't see a countertop with a motor on it being worth $350. It sounds nice though. Honestly, for that price you could pick up a nice used Thorens with a Grado or Ortofon cartridge and have a better table - once you set it up properly. Buying new will always limit what you can get - of course you know that.

gener8tr

04-16-2007, 05:40 PM

Any opinions out there on the gear I'm thinking about? They sound good in a review and the price is right, but I'd love to hear some real world opinions.

Kevin,

Don't worry about getting too "little" of a system to start... You're just getting back into the game so it's probably better to error on the low-ball side rather than dropping $3k (or MUCH more) on a phono-rig and not appreciating or really enjoying it. I think you can do very well for yourself with a $700.00 budget. You can always upgrade later if you find the taste of vinyl appealing. If not, resale on most electronics (ebay, etc.) is very good.

GO FOR IT... it's a lot of fun (but very addictive).

wkohler

04-16-2007, 05:43 PM

Oh, for cleaning records - I think Gruv Glide is a great product - it's like $26.99 a can, but it lasts a long time and it doesn't take up space like the nitty gritty or the VPI, although those do a different type of cleaning. I still always make sure to keep my vinyl from collecting dust and other contaminants, but they are inevitable!

Vinyl-Addict

04-16-2007, 05:45 PM

The P1 is a nice table - $350 with a cartridge is not bad. It is very basic, which is good with vinyl. My problem with is the build quality. I just don't see a countertop with a motor on it being worth $350. It sounds nice though. Honestly, for that price you could pick up a nice used Thorens with a Grado or Ortofon cartridge and have a better table - once you set it up properly. Buying new will always limit what you can get - of course you know that.

Build quality on a used table is going to be a lot harder to predict than buying new. Buying used will also limit what you end up, as far as how much time, effort, mechanical ability, and patience the owner has.
I think the P1 is a great starter table for someone new to vinyl and worth $350, countertop and all. ;)

wkohler

04-16-2007, 05:48 PM

I considered that too. I really looked at the P1. I thought about ditching my Bang and Olufsen TX for it. I budgeted $410 for it (to upgrade the platter), but I couldn't see myself doing it. I like the Bang and Olufsen, but... EDIT (no point on letting you hang on)...it seems too technologically advanced to play vinyl.

vinyl anachronist

04-16-2007, 06:07 PM

I considered that too. I really looked at the P1. I thought about ditching my Bang and Olufsen TX for it. I budgeted $410 for it (to upgrade the platter), but I couldn't see myself doing it. I like the Bang and Olufsen, but... EDIT (no point on letting you hang on)...it seems too technologically advanced to play vinyl.

What does that mean? :confused:

Pinknik

04-16-2007, 06:11 PM

What does that mean? :confused:

Perhaps the whoosh in whooshwagon, is the sound of his point flying over our heads. :D

Only keeding, whooshwagon. I like that handle, and I don't even know what it means. Hey, there goes another.

blakep

04-16-2007, 06:59 PM

Personally, at the lower end of the price scale, I would not recommend buying new when there are probably a number of inexpensive alternatives if you have a bit of patience and "shop".

There were a ton of Pioneer PL-12D's sold in the late 70's/early 80's. Running a wanted ad on your local Craigslist may well score you one of these for $40-$50 or less. If the platter spins freely without the belt on (belt should be replaced anyway for $10 or so) and the arm appears to not have any major play in the bearings, this table would probably walk all over the entry level Rega or Project (my brother has the Project, which I helped him buy-there are serious weaknesses with the budget "throw-in" cartridges provided with these entry level tables as well). At $60 for an AT120E or, better yet, $90 for an AT 440 MLa, you'll have a very nice budget table for $150 plus what you might pay someone to properly install and align the cartridge.

As to phono preamps, the DB Systems phono pre for $165 is a great stage. No, it won't do MC's, is not adjustable, etc. (who's going to stick a good MC on a $300 turntable?) so you're not paying for a lot of crap which you're not going to use anyway and does nothing but cause a phono stage to be built to a price point without sound quality being the main focus. Nobody's ever heard of it so you won't impress your friends but it's competitive with a lot of the $500 or slightly more phono stages. You're buying the DB direct from the manufacturer so you're not paying for a retail chain, marketing etc. You can read an older online review of the DB if you do a google search for it and Soundstage.

I have exactly this setup in a system I put together for my 14 year old son last year (paid $5 for the Pioneer at a garage sale) and it is pretty impressive. I have about 15X (or more) $$ into my personal vinyl front end than the combination above, and, yes, it is definitely better, but realistically I would have a tough time saying it's 15X better.

The suggestion about cleaning is also very valid if you think you'll be taking this seriously. The KAB EV1 is high quality cleaning on a budget if you already have a decent vacuum.

gener8tr

04-16-2007, 07:21 PM

I agree with Blake in the sense that a nice "vintage" rig can be had for cheap much of the time. I didn't want to be the first to post as such as I am admittedly a vintage nut but didn't want to push my true feelings on you :)

Pioneer is obviously a great choice. You may also look at Technics and Yamaha. I found a new / old stock Yamaha PX-2 linear tracker with an Audio Technica AT12S cart and stylus for $375.00 shipped. I know that was a unique and uncommon find, but great vintage gear is out there if you're willing to do a bit of searching.

wkohler

04-16-2007, 08:35 PM

I'll mention two things:

My Beogram is one of the linear tracking ones with the laser before the tonearm. I like it, but it just isn't simple enough for me. It is really the antithesis of my philosophy - simplicity. I use NAD amplification equipment and I like how simple it is (the old stuff). My opinion is not as positive now that I've had experience with other B&O equipment - it pretty much is gimmicky crap.

About my username:

I have a Volvo 240 wagon. In 1982 they made a turbo version that outperformed a Porsche 944, thus Car and Driver dubbed it the "Whooshwagon."

TONEPUB

04-16-2007, 09:34 PM

Except in 1982 there was no Porsche turbo, it came on the scene in very late 83 and they were all badged 84 models.

Porsche only made a 924 and a 924 turbo, both of which were very dreadful
cars...

wkohler

04-16-2007, 09:38 PM

Except in 1982 there was no Porsche turbo, it came on the scene in very late 83 and they were all badged 84 models.

Porsche only made a 924 and a 924 turbo, both of which were very dreadful
cars...

You are correct. There was no turbo 944 in 1982. I never said it was a turbo - the 951 was the turbo. The test was between an '82 944 and an '82 245 Turbo wagon. Usually, those in the know aren't that impressed a turboed brick beat a 4 cylinder NA Porsche. It is still neat to say though.

Kevin Robinson

04-20-2007, 01:46 PM

Thanks-
I've actually found a well-cared for Pioneer PL-12D in my area being sold with a new belt and an Audio Technica 70L cart. Any thoughts on the cart? Upgrades are available. I'm thinking of going with the Parasound Z-phono for $150 as a phono pre-amp unless somebody can convince me there's a better value. I'm really looking forward to this. I LOVED dropping the needle to the groove until about 1989, when the media convinced my 20 year old self that I needed to sell all my old records and rebuy the same albums on CD. With a few exceptions, I really haven't found music PROFOUNDLY engaging since. I wonder if quality vinyl will make the difference?

Jay F

04-20-2007, 02:56 PM

Thanks-
I've actually found a well-cared for Pioneer PL-12D in my area being sold with a new belt and an Audio Technica 70L cart. Any thoughts on the cart? Upgrades are available. I'm thinking of going with the Parasound Z-phono for $150 as a phono pre-amp unless somebody can convince me there's a better value. I'm really looking forward to this. I LOVED dropping the needle to the groove until about 1989, when the media convinced my 20 year old self that I needed to sell all my old records and rebuy the same albums on CD. With a few exceptions, I really haven't found music PROFOUNDLY engaging since. I wonder if quality vinyl will make the difference?
It did for me, esp. w/rock music, which, with very few exceptions, I find uninvolving on CD. Lucky you to have kept your records. :righton:

blakep

04-25-2007, 08:50 PM

In my opinion the price for that Pioneer is a bit steep, mainly in light of the fact that the AT cartridge attached to it is pretty much a throwaway. You see that cartridge advertised by some dealers for $40 on the net when you can buy the AT 120E for $55 and the 440 MLa for $89, both serious high quality cartridges for not much more compared to the 70L.

I'd rather buy the table without cartridge for $75-$100 if I had to and put the AT 120E on it, even if I had to pay someone to install and align it. And I still think the DB Systems phono pre for $165 is a steal. I haven't heard the Z Phono, but the DB really put the Project Phono Box to shame in my son's system-the DB is supposed to stand up well to some of the $500 stages. I am convinced that trying to be all things to all people and attempting to build a phono pre for $150 that does MM and MC simply results in cutting too many corners and compromising sound quality. The DB is MM only, a very simple circuit dedicated strictly to doing MM and it works very well.

The PL-12D is a very good table in that $100 area. In the cartridge, phono pre area spend just a bit more and get a lot more in my opinion.

StylinLP

04-26-2007, 05:07 PM

Sure, I will help out since I'm at work with nothing to do but stir up trouble on the internet. It all depends on your price range. But I can give you an entry level price range with my bent on what is acceptable in audio quality. Other tables either just don't stack up vs the competition or you will not get the night and day differance of vinyl vs CD's.

Entry level system:

TURNTABLES
-Thorens TD-145 II or TD-124 used turntable (Best model-Poor mans version of the prestigious Linn LP12) $300 - $500
-Music Hall MMF-5 turntable (Not as good as a table as Thorens but is new and easy setup) $500
-JA Michell Focus One w/ grace 707 arm (Better than any Rega P3 clone)$500
-Rega P3 turntable (alot of fans) $750 or $450 used

Pre/AMP intergrated
-Nad C325BEE (best amp under $500) $300

Speakers to match
-Quad 12L (beautifull high quality recommended!) $500 used
-Epos M 5 Bookshelf Loudspeaker $600
-Nola Alan $350 (highly recommended by everyone)
-Usher Audio S-520 Birch Shielded Loudspeaker

Phono Pre-Amp MM
-Bellari VP129 tube phono pre (hands down best under $500) $200

Disk Doctor cleaning system w/fluid (Cheapest way to acceptably have clean records) $50 *(highly recommend a cleaning machine)

Turntable stand
-Solid Steel 3 tier rack $400 (welded and high quality)
-IKEA LACK endtable $10 (Perfect for Rega type Ridgid technology)

Cartridge
-Dynovector 10x5 cartridge $300 (best MM for the price)
-GRADO Platinum cartridge $300 (best MM cart unshielded)

Interconnects
-Harmonic Technology TruthLinks $150 (best without spending crazy money)
-VH Labs $160 (better maybe)

Speaker cables (HT pro cost the most)
-Harmonic techology pro 11 $250
-DH Labs T-14
-Cardas CrossLink
-Kimber kable 8TC

Vinyl-Addict

04-26-2007, 05:49 PM

Sure, I will help out since I'm at work with nothing to do but stir up trouble on the internet. It all depends on your price range. But I can give you an entry level price range with my bent on what is acceptable in audio quality. Other tables either just don't stack up vs the competition or you will not get the night and day differance of vinyl vs CD's.

Entry level system:

TURNTABLES
-Thorens TD-145 II or TD-124 used turntable (Best model-Poor mans version of the prestigious Linn LP12) $300 - $500
-Music Hall MMF-5 turntable (Not as good as a table as Thorens but is new and easy setup) $500
-JA Michell Focus One w/ grace 707 arm (Better than any Rega P3 clone)$500
-Rega P3 turntable (alot of fans) $750 or $450 used

Pre/AMP intergrated
-Nad C325BEE (best amp under $500) $300

Speakers to match
-Quad 12L (beautifull high quality recommended!) $500 used
-Epos M 5 Bookshelf Loudspeaker $600
-Nola Alan $350 (highly recommended by everyone)
-Usher Audio S-520 Birch Shielded Loudspeaker

Phono Pre-Amp MM
-Bellari VP129 tube phono pre (hands down best under $500) $200

Disk Doctor cleaning system w/fluid (Cheapest way to acceptably have clean records) $50 *(highly recommend a cleaning machine)

Turntable stand
-Solid Steel 3 tier rack $400 (welded and high quality)
-IKEA LACK endtable $10 (Perfect for Rega type Ridgid technology)

Cartridge
-Dynovector 10x5 cartridge $300 (best MM for the price)
-GRADO Platinum cartridge $300 (best MM cart unshielded)

Interconnects
-Harmonic Technology TruthLinks $150 (best without spending crazy money)
-VH Labs $160 (better maybe)

Speaker cables (HT pro cost the most)
-Harmonic techology pro 11 $250
-DH Labs T-14
-Cardas CrossLink
-Kimber kable 8TC

Some good recs. The Dyna 10x5 is hi-output MC.