eBay ends my listing for a WTC charity auction

[Unknown]

Note: I've posted essentially this same thing on the Dream Theater and King's X newsgroups. Apologies to those who may see it twice.

For those of you not familiar with this, Dream Theater released a live 3 CD set last Tuesday -- Live Scenes from New York -- which had a burning apple on the cover with the Manhattan sklyine in the back (including the WTC). The story is covered at:
http://www.dreamtheater.net/newsdt.htm#3cdrecalled

These became 'instant collectibles' and were going for big bucks on ebay for the last week.

So, I bought 4 sealed copies with good
intentions to sell 2 or 3 copies and give all the profits to charity. (The
other one or two I was going to keep -- maybe a sealed copy and a playing
copy -- for personal use, NOT FOR RESALE.)

So yesterday I find out about ebay's "Auction for America" and it seemed
like a nice opportunity to sell one. For those not familiar with AFA,
essentially the seller donates the item, ebay waives the listing fees, and
100% of the purchase price goes to charity related to last week's tragic
events. Besides donating the item, the seller pays shipping.

So I listed one last night.

As pointed out elsewhere on the DT ng, I was the *only person* on ebay
selling this item 100% FOR CHARITY (out of about 40 auctions for this item
listed today). Those of you who have seen other auctions of this item
on ebay will know that people have sold copies for $75 - $100 with no
indication that profits were going to charity.

The attacks happened a week ago. The CDs came out a week ago. Where was
ebay during this time?

Consider -- in my experience, smaller independent stores have either not
pulled LSFNY or been slow to do so. If I had not bought them, someone else
could have easily picked them up and sold them for personal gain. I was
trying to 'do the right thing.'

Please let me hear your thoughts on this one. I'm miffed. :mad:

Thanks,
Patrick

======================================== ====
eBay appreciates the fact that you chose to list your auction(s): 1466492462


1466492462 Dream Theater Live Scenes from New York seald

with us. However, we have determined that your item is inappropriate for
listing on eBay at this time.

Out of respect for the many members of the eBay community personally
affected by the tragedy at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, we are
temporarily suspending the trade of Pentagon and World Trade Center related
memorabilia. Therefore, we have removed this auction and all fees have been
credited to your account.

September 11, 2001 was a terrible day for the United States and many people
in the eBay community. The thoughts of everyone at eBay go out to the
victims of this tragedy and their families.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: We must ask you to refrain from listing any World Trade
Center or Pentagon memorabilia. Further incidents could result in the
suspension of your account.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

Regards,
Nathan Allred (ended@ebay.com)
eBay Inc

[ September 18, 2001: Message edited by: Patrick M ]

[Sckott]

I would reply and write politely that your eBay was pulled for wrong and misunderstood reasons. Fact is, I think they sweep their DB for WTC related auctions in general and whipe em out.

OR

I would relist the pieces for no mention of anyting WTCish and just mention minus S&H, the money goes to the Red Cross. End of story.

You have to understand, people are trying to bend some sort of way to scam good people into giving up their money for charity via eBay, and a lot of it is scam-o-rama. It's grey area sometimes, you have to realize. There are whole sites on charity giving, and it's a lot of scam. I would tell most people hand your money to the Red Cross personally, or just buy a flag and pray, in your own way for the victims.

Don't get miffed. Wrong thing to get miffed about right now. I'll leave it at that. I still have fresh milk in the fridge and my family is without a scratch. Ah, God Bless USA.

If you want to do something quick and painless, take your old clean clothing that you won't wear and take it to the Salvation Army by hand. There's a lot more that you can give to charities, not necessarilly FOR WTC that give hightened awareness to those in need, and the money from your Cds would pale in comparison, no offense. One thing I'm glad for, is this monstrosity is getting people out there to give generously.

I don't think it's over yet, either. This might be just a mere distraction, given respect to those who are more than miffed.

Just think, if we get hit again, it might be a whole community leaving many homeless and cold. you might see a little girl with your shrunken Dream Theatre on her body, while national news coverage rolls on.

Now, woulnd't you feel special?!? :D

Best,

[ September 18, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]

[Unknown]

I don't think (thus far at least) that they have done a mass sweep of this particular CD set. They've taken some down, but it's been spotty, and a lot have snuck through with "Buy it Now."

As for relisting w/o a WTC reference, I don't think I actually made a direct WTC reference in my original listing. Have you seen the cover? It's not that bad, IMO.

I've given tons to the Salvation Army this year (part of a downsizing effort) before this tragedy and will continue to do so afterwards.

Also, don't underestimate the money that could have been generated from these CDs. They had been selling for $75 - $100 before this (check the completed auctions). Yeah, it pales in comparison to what Bill Gates could do, but it's not bad.

<STRONG>
Just think, if we get hit again, it might be a whole community leaving many homeless and cold. you might see a little girl with your shrunken Dream Theatre on her body, while national news coverage rolls on.</STRONG>

WTF????

[MikeD]

Don't take it personal. Ebay is extremely haphazard in their enforcement methods. I think they use ex fast food employees who throw darts at a dartboard to determine what is not apppropriate.

Chip

[Unknown]

Originally posted by Chip:
<STRONG>Don't take it personal. Ebay is extremely haphazard in their enforcement methods. I think they use ex fast food employees who throw darts at a dartboard to determine what is not apppropriate.</STRONG>

Good point. After my original post, I noticed that ebay has gone so far overboard that they are now pulling the promo CD from LSFNY. The damn thing doesn't even have the artwork! :confused:

[MikeD]

Patrick:

Is the version with the new cover released yet? I found a store with a bunch in stock but I can't tell which version. If the new one is not out yet, I know it's the old one still in stock. I might pick up a few. If they are sold at some point down the line, I would not see this as profiting from the tragedy. Just profiting from Dream Theater fans, which I believe is morally acceptable. What do you think?

Chip

[Unknown]

Originally posted by Chip:
<STRONG>Patrick:

Is the version with the new cover released yet? I found a store with a bunch in stock but I can't tell which version. If the new one is not out yet, I know it's the old one still in stock. I might pick up a few. If they are sold at some point down the line, I would not see this as profiting from the tragedy. Just profiting from Dream Theater fans, which I believe is morally acceptable. What do you think?

Chip</STRONG>

To my knowledge, the new version is not out anywhere yet. You can scan the ebay auctions and see what the original covers look like (flaming apple covered in barbed wire with the NY skyline in the back).

Personally, I think it would be immoral to sell them in the future as you describe. Frankly, I think you're rationalizing. Odds are you're not going to sell them to DT fans. Most DT fans are opening and playing their copies. I would also wager most DT diehards already have their copies anyway. If they don't, they know they can get them from online sources still, or wait for the new version. They campaigned against a guy trying to sell a copy for $500 on ebay and have bashed those who auctioned them on ebay. I think they're pretty disgusted, as was I. Don't do it.

[MikeD]

Really? I wasn't rationalizing at all. Do you think in a year or two anyone will care about this album cover other than a DT fan? I sure don't!

The fact that the music is available elsewhere doesn't matter to collectors. For example, the Yes mini lp's were selling for 500 bucks a pop, when you can get the same music for 10 bucks. I wouldn't mind profiting from DT fans, and I'm personally not a fan. King's X - them I like.

Chip

[MikeD]

And the fact that DT fans are opening and playing theirs now makes my point. In a couple years those same people will be thinking, "hey I'd like a nice fresh copy of that no longer available collectable item. I'll be the only one on the block". That's the whole collecting thing. Personally, I bought my Yes mini lp's for 30 bucks each and sold them for 300-500 each. But I spent all the money on cd's again if that makes you feel better.

Chip :)

[Unknown]

Originally posted by Chip:
<STRONG>Really? I wasn't rationalizing at all. Do you think in a year or two anyone will care about this album cover other than a DT fan? I sure don't!</STRONG>

Here's the thing -- I don't think DT fans care now, and I don't think they will really care in a couple of years. I only remember seeing one post (besides mine) on the ng where someone just wanted it as a collectible. (I wouldn't dream of selling one for profit.) Someone even mentioned that they might throw the cover away. And I can tell you that they *hate* people who trying to profit from this CD as you're proposing.

<STRONG>The fact that the music is available elsewhere doesn't matter to collectors. For example, the Yes mini lp's were selling for 500 bucks a pop, when you can get the same music for 10 bucks. I wouldn't mind profiting from DT fans, and I'm personally not a fan. King's X - them I like.</STRONG>

Don't confuse 'collectors' with 'DT fans.' As I said above, most DT fans are apathetic about owning it and feel somewhat strange about their favorite band making news for such a tragic coincidence. Also, you're not profiting from 'DT fans' or 'collectors,' you're profiting from a terrorist attack on America. If it hadn't happened, that CD wouldn't be collectible. Period. I think fundamentally you know that selling them is wrong, and I once again admonish you, "Don't do it!" Instant karma will come and kick your *** over your shoulders if you do!

DT fans are doggedly loyal and rabid. They have a unique and wonderful relationship with the band. You're talking about pissing on sacred ground, and you're not even a fan, just a capitalist.