Power Conditioners - any thoughts on PureAV PF60?

[Steve G]

I live in Southern California, home of lousy wiring and RFI.

I have had a constant battle to get noise out of my system, and I'm doing pretty well.

One place I've always had it worst was with the phono stage - and this is through several TTs and preamps - it's always the hardest part at my house. I can't just move, so...

I have been borrowing, over the weekend, a Furman power conditioner from a friend, just to check it out. It is a decent improvement, to me enough of an improvement to be worth buying.

So I've looked at some of the conditioners available, and the one that seems to me like it would best suit my needs (although I don't do video or television at all) is the Belkin PureAV PF60. Does anyone have any experience with this unit? How does it compare to Furman (I am currently testing a PS2, which doesn't even have very advanced filters, so I am hopeful that the nice results I get from the Furman would be even better with the PureAV, but who knows?)

I welcome, and appreciate, your thoughts!

-s

[LeeS]

I'd get a Monster Richard Marsh design instead for same money.

[Steve G]

deleted

[cantona7]

I've never used the Belkin conditioner, but I have the Monster and currently use a Shunyata Hydra 2. The Monster is used to run my home theater components--in my environment, it made little to no impact on the audio side. But since you mentioned phono as an application, I will say that the Hydra 2 made a significant difference there. I use the built-in phono stage in my Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista M3 integrated and when I have the amp plugged into the Hydra 2, the backgrounds on vinyl playback are significantly blacker. I can also quite easily hear that there is less low-level hash coming from my speakers when there is no record playing. The sound is more dimensional and quite pleasing. Unfortunately for me, the amp's dynamics are quite significantly affected by plugging it into the Hydra 2, so right now, I prefer the amp straight into the wall. However, if you have an outboard phono stage, you might not have this problem--I know if my phono was outboard, it would definitely go into the Hydra 2.

[ex_mixer]

Hi;
I have the PF 60 and am very happy with it. :righton: I noticed an improved video performance from my Samsung 46" LCD HDTV afetr I plugged it in.

Review of the belkin here:

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/tech-review.php?rev=76

Snip:
All of the listed features are nice, but the $749 question, does it work? Yes it does, very well in fact. I tested the PF60 with all of my AV equipment (Hitachi 57SWX20B RPTV, Onkyo 989 Receiver, Denon 3910 DVD Player, LG 3410-A HDTV STB, Comcast HDTV cable box, and a Sony VCR). With the voltage meter on the PF60, with everything powered off, it shows 121.9 volts from the wall. When everything is powered up with the receiver playing at reference levels, the volts drop to only 119.8 and as mentioned earlier, 4.6 amps are used. Power consumption aside though, the clean power provided by the PF60 was most noticeable in video material. When I first installed the PF60, I noticed that the brightness and contrast on my TV seemed to be a little high. Sure enough, when I popped in a calibration DVD, I noticed that each of the corresponding video levels were higher by 2 clicks in the service menu. I made the changes and as a test, unplugged the PF60 and re-hooked up everything the way I had it before, and low and behold, now my video levels were too dark. The PF60 showed me right there that it was doing its job and providing clean and stable power to all of my equipment."

I bought mine at ecost.com for around $150.00, it looks like they have just one left:
http://ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=501009

IMHO, it's a great deal at that price.:goodie:
cheers,
ex_mixer

[intlplby]

i was able to pick up mine for $180 shipped new.... look around and you should get it for less than $250 for sure.....

i haven't done any extensive listening tests, but the delayed on off features and selective banks on/off feature was worth the price alone because it makes it much easier to turn everything on and off all at once.... means i am more likely to turn it off when i run out of the house for a quick errand and therefore i save electricity and get more hours out of my tubes

[tony3d]

Can you use extention cords running from equiptment on say the other side of a 62" tv to the Pure PF60? Is it ok to do this?

[tony3d]

Sure. Give it a shot. It might work out well.

Belkin's tech support was telling me that this would significantly reduce the surge protection, but I don't see how.

[intlplby]

the power cord on the PF60 is hard core.... if you get an extension cord you might want to get a really heavy duty power cord.

make sure to keep the integrity of the ground pin when extending it. the front of the PF60 has an indicator to show that the unit is grounded.

plus the cord that comes on the unit is actually quite long... much longer than the cords on regular powerstrip surge protectors. you may not need an extension cord at all

[tony3d]

the power cord on the PF60 is hard core.... if you get an extension cord you might want to get a really heavy duty power cord.

make sure to keep the integrity of the ground pin when extending it. the front of the PF60 has an indicator to show that the unit is grounded.

plus the cord that comes on the unit is actually quite long... much longer than the cords on regular powerstrip surge protectors. you may not need an extension cord at all

I'm not talking about extending the power cord of the PF60, but of the equipment hooked to it.

[RicP]

I have a PF60 and am very happy with it. The list price is horribly misleading because it can be found virtually anywhere for < $200.

I have everything running through the PF60 with no complaints (12 items). I have a separate 15amp circuit running to my media room and the PF60 is the only thing, other than my arcade game, that's plugged into it. The voltage is rock solid and I've had no issues at all with the PF60. When the system is idle, there is little to no noise at all 6 inches in front of the speakers.

[intlplby]

as long as it's a good power cord and it is grounded you are using i can't think of any reason it would not provide protection....

i'm sure they have to say something like that in any situation where you use it in even the slightest unorthodox manner

[Steve G]

of course I've now had my "some people are not as smart as others" moment of the morning...

yes, the system sounded cleaner with my friend's Furman, which, as noted above, I had been testing out for the weekend.

so....

when I unplugged the Furman to return the unit to said friend, I left the power cables hanging over the top of a turntable

late at night, when I came home, I carefully replaced all the cables where I had originally had them plugged. However, just to be tidy, I pulled each cable out from its source and straightened it out and untangled it, and hung in neatly across the top of my million other cables, and then neatly plugged it into the back of my preamp (which has enough outlets for everything except the CD player)

is anyone guessing where this is going???

if you guessed "almost all of the hum and ground noise went away when Steve untangled the power cables", well, you would win the brass ring....

Aargh!!!!!

I still want to get a conditioner - it DID clean up the sound - but my desire has, shall we say, tapered off today.....

[LeeS]

if you guessed "almost all of the hum and ground noise went away when Steve untangled the power cables",

A common occurance, don't feel bad. Always best to have AC cords at a 90 degree angle to any signal cords. :)

[Metralla]

... hung in neatly across the top of my million other cables, and then neatly plugged it into the back of my preamp (which has enough outlets for everything except the CD player)....
It sounds like you could revisit this. As LeeS says, interconnects and power cables are not friends, so keep them away from each other.

Your preamp has power outlets? You have things plugged in there? This is how things used to be ... but current thinking would suggest that each component should be plugged into a wall outlet. If you don't have enough wall outlets, then you would need something - not a power conditioner per se - something like a Chris VH "Hot Box"?

[Billy Budapest]

I live in Southern California, home of lousy wiring and RFI.

I have had a constant battle to get noise out of my system, and I'm doing pretty well.

One place I've always had it worst was with the phono stage - and this is through several TTs and preamps - it's always the hardest part at my house. I can't just move, so...

I have been borrowing, over the weekend, a Furman power conditioner from a friend, just to check it out. It is a decent improvement, to me enough of an improvement to be worth buying.

So I've looked at some of the conditioners available, and the one that seems to me like it would best suit my needs (although I don't do video or television at all) is the Belkin PureAV PF60. Does anyone have any experience with this unit? How does it compare to Furman (I am currently testing a PS2, which doesn't even have very advanced filters, so I am hopeful that the nice results I get from the Furman would be even better with the PureAV, but who knows?)

I welcome, and appreciate, your thoughts!

-s

I have one and it cured a nasty ground loop problem I was having due to my cable tv. This is not even an advertised feature of the unit (ground loop suppression), but it totally eliminated it.

I'd actually go with the PureAV over a Monster Power unit--Richard Marsh or not--since the Monster units are hideously overpriced vis a vis the PF60, which you can get for around $200.00 (list price is closer to $800.00). It's a real steal. Plus, it's built like a tank! Of course, YMMV . . .

Check out this link for a pic of the inside:

http://www.laaudiofile.com/images/pf60gut.jpg

I'm sure products from PS Audio and other makes are better, but they are a heck of a lot more expensive, even 10x the price.

[alanb]

but does it make your cd player/tube phono/turntable sound any better?????

[Steve G]

well the Furman one I auditioned definitely cleaned up the sound - it seems like they make the detail better and the soundstage and backgrounds nicer - don't ask me how though - I can't understand it on paper - but you can hear it - the whole stereo image is better. Like I said, it's a mystery.

[Billy Budapest]

but does it make your cd player/tube phono/turntable sound any better?????

Everything sounds better without the ground loop hum. ;) I'm serious!

Last year, I really wanted something that would protect my system--and good thing because shortly thereafter, my building was hit by lightning. Thanks to the PF60, my system was undamaged.

It definitely doesn't do anything that hurts the sound quality. However, protection was my main motivation for the purchase. It certainly paid off in spades!

[Steve G]

Well I got one of the bargain ones from eCost, and it is defective

it seems to work as a power conditioner, but outlets 1 and 2 are dead (in both the switched and unswitched positions) and the display on the front doesn't seem to light up all the way - only some of the info shows, and sometimes it turns on and sometimes it doesn't..

sigh... calling Belkin tomorrow - at least they're in Compton - hopefully i can take it over there instead of shipping it back to eCost

but I'm generally fairly bummed with it!

[mike g]

Sorry about that Steve G

If it doesn't work out give this a look
http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=809

[Billy Budapest]

Well I got one of the bargain ones from eCost, and it is defective

it seems to work as a power conditioner, but outlets 1 and 2 are dead (in both the switched and unswitched positions) and the display on the front doesn't seem to light up all the way - only some of the info shows, and sometimes it turns on and sometimes it doesn't..

sigh... calling Belkin tomorrow - at least they're in Compton - hopefully i can take it over there instead of shipping it back to eCost

but I'm generally fairly bummed with it!

Wow, what a bad experience. I bought mine from Amazon--actually, their Office Depot vendor. Paid about $50 more than what other people are paying, but I had peace of mind it was coming from a reputable & authorized dealer.

[Steve G]

thanks everyone - that is a nice looking strip

and no snake oil... let's see what Belkin and eCost tell me

I guess it might be an expensive lesson but I still have some fight left in me!:realmad:

-s

[LeeS]

You should really take a closer look at the Monster Cable conditioners. I have seen them discounted in the stores and Richard Marsh does good work.

[Steve G]

You should really take a closer look at the Monster Cable conditioners. I have seen them discounted in the stores and Richard Marsh does good work.

I actually went looking for one when I got your earlier post - chased down a used one in Pasadena but never found it, etc.

they are a bit more expensive but I'm sure they are worth the difference from my experience so far

live and learn! right now it sorta depends on whether I can get this one refunded or repaired. If I can get my $$ back that would make the difference how much I could spend.

-s