Downgrading Audiophile Equipment?

[Mr. X]

Hello - I've recently become very money-conscious and have been looking at my pricey hifi system; thinking that it's not necessary to own. I am considering selling my Pro-Ject turntable, Rotel receiver and cd player, B&W speakers, and Transparent cable. Then, I'd like to find good sounding affordable equipment (perhaps a Yamaha receiver, $300-$400 floor-standing speakers, a $200 or so DVD player, and to hook up my Technics 1200.

I just wonder how much of a difference I'd really notice, and if it's worth the money. I'm not sure it is. I also get frustrated because I listen to a lot of rock, and the excellent equipment really brings out the problems such as distortion, where a more commercial system doesn't do that. I miss listening to my Pet Sounds CD without hearing distortion! Sure, the perfect recording sounds amazing, but when rock is what I play 85% of the time, the better equipment can actually worsen the sound. Any advice?

[Joe Nino-Hernes]

Honestly, its hard if not impossible to go back. Once you get used to good sound, nothing else will do. I recently upgraded several components in my system, and I can't listen to the old ones the same way anymore, and I thought that the old ones were really good!

Hifi is addictive, its like smoking cigarettes. Once you start, its hard if not impossible to stop. It can be done, but you really have to try hard. But think on the bright side, hifi is not hazardous to your health...just you wallet (unless you own vintage gear, then its both...:rolleyes: ) However, if you are happy with your system, don't spend any more money on it, just keep it the way it is and enjoy the music!

Also, if you replaced your gear with lesser gear, you would be adding distortions to allready distorted music! Owning good gear changes the way you hear, wether you realize it or not. If you go back to entry level gear, you will not enjoy it the same way.

[Simon A]

I won't tell you whether you will hear what you want to hear from another kit, but buying vintage equipment for the prices you quote is possible and will give you fantastic results. Some will agree with me while others won't, but speaking for myself, I have recently acquired some vintage gear that was in splendid condition and I am enjoying it as much as my bigger system. I appreciate the no frills aspect of it and the music sounds as good even if the listening experience is totally different.

Take your time looking at the many different options that are offered to you and do not hesitate to ask all the questions that will help you decide what is best for your needs.

Enjoy the quest! :wave:

[fxsuperglide]

Yeah, it seems I'm always experimenting with "high value-low cost" setups, just to see how they compare to the better items. As I might have mentioned elsewhere, I put together a turntable from some slightly imperfect or surplus Linn parts slightly modified/improved, along with parts from other turntables(Thorens outer platter modified to fit the Linn inner platter), and a Rega tonearm which I acquired for cheap. To finish it off, I even found a nude elliptical stylus'd Digitrac 200NE (Ortofon made) cartridge for $20 (and two spares for their styli). The sound quality of this turntable definitely exceeds it's low price. Not only will it make a great loaner or "starter table" for a friend on a budget (if they break a stylus, they're only out $20), but I actually enjoy listening to it in my own setup as well. OH, and my "Ultimate downgrade"? Last year, I sold off some more expensive speakers in favor of a set of vintage Pioneer HPM-60 speakers that needed a minor repair/overhaul (they simply sound great, especially considering they were free). So with that said, if I'm forced to "downgrade" for financial reasons, I still have a decent setup for myself.

[DrJ]

What moonstar said...if you want great sound for less money, consider going vintage. I did that a couple years ago and have never looked back. For amps and preamps in particular, there's some incredible bang-for-buck buys out there. I have also been fortunate with vintage speakers, and I'm hoping to soon get a little time to restore my Thorens TD-124 turntable to its full glory.

BUT, if you decide to try vintage, be prepared to put a little time in to a) doing research to separate the timeless gear (stuff that can still give modern gear a run for its money or surpass it sonically) from the merely quaint/collectible and b) doing repairs/update type work yourself (new electrolytic caps for amps for example) if you want to keep the prices down. Otherwise, if you have to pay someone to do all the work for you, the cost-effectiveness starts to drop off.

The side benefit to learning to do such work (other than it being kind of fun) is that audio gear rapidly becomes demystified, and you become a much more informed consumer.

[Dave]

Try to find better masterings of the rock albums you love. It's not your equipment that makes it sound bad in a lot of cases.

[BradOlson]

If you like "Who's Next," the huge majority of us recommend, including myself for example, Steve's mastering.

[Metralla]

Vintage will probably help you get the midrange back. Modern budget gear tries to sound extended at both extremes but lacks the finesse to pull it off and ends up being unsatisfying. A nice old valve receiver from inmate Kent and some '70s speakers could give you a more pleasant sound on the rock recordings you like so much.

Not that you will get much money back though from selling what you have. You should be prepared for a loss. I'd sell the receiver, B&Ws but keep the CD player and talk to Kent.

[Doonie]

Another vote here for vintage gear. :thumbsup:

[westcoasting]

If you like "Who's Next," the huge majority of us recommend, including myself for example, Steve's mastering.

:righton:

Be careful with versions Made In Japan. Steve's has the black band near the edge of the disc. I once stated the Non-Hoffman Japan mastering wasn't that bad... however, the source of it IMO sounds noticably INFERIOR (like a dub of a dub of a dub). Steve's is the one!

[dogpile]

Sure, the perfect recording sounds amazing, but when rock is what I play 85% of the time, the better equipment can actually worsen the sound. Any advice?

Better gear can make a bad recording sound, well....bad. So yes, better gear will worsen the sound, however, with a good recording the music will shine!!

IMO, mass market gear won't sound better than your existing setup....stick with it :righton:

[Jay F]

Hello - I've recently become very money-conscious and have been looking at my pricey hifi system; thinking that it's not necessary to own. I am considering selling my Pro-Ject turntable, Rotel receiver and cd player, B&W speakers, and Transparent cable. Then, I'd like to find good sounding affordable equipment (perhaps a Yamaha receiver, $300-$400 floor-standing speakers, a $200 or so DVD player, and to hook up my Technics 1200.

I just wonder how much of a difference I'd really notice, and if it's worth the money. I'm not sure it is. I also get frustrated because I listen to a lot of rock, and the excellent equipment really brings out the problems such as distortion, where a more commercial system doesn't do that. I miss listening to my Pet Sounds CD without hearing distortion! Sure, the perfect recording sounds amazing, but when rock is what I play 85% of the time, the better equipment can actually worsen the sound. Any advice?

Get rid of the B&W speakers. They make less than perfect CDs sound hideous. I thought I was going to have to stop listening to music when I bought a pair of 805s. Instead, I bought a turntable and sold the speakers.

Concentrate on collecting records. Which TT do you have?

[bhazen]

Although I have a fairly $$$$ system, I could happily live with an entry-level system*; in fact, some of the "loud", compressed, treble-EQ'd CDs of today sound better on a cheaper, lower-rez stereo - where albums like Jet's Shine On are painfully laid bare (OUCH!) on my Naim/J.M. Reynaud system, it didn't sound bad at all on my pal's Onkyo/Sony/Bose 301 setup. Truth!

*It's all about the music innit.

[Black Elk]

Get rid of the B&W speakers. They make less than perfect CDs sound hideous.

Nonsense! I listen to 802s every day with all styles of music, and they do not make anything sound hideous (including The Stone Roses who I am currently listening to).

I thought I was going to have to stop listening to music when I bought a pair of 805s. Instead, I bought a turntable and sold the speakers.

The 805 is a reference loudspeaker demanding of the best source and amplifier to give of their best. I've used them extensively, and they do not make music sound hideous, no matter how it has been produced.

[SamS]

Mr. X,

I think that by the time you sell your current gear, the loss would be appreciable enough to not allow you afford components that would come anywhere close to the sound you would expect.

Echoing what Metralla says: you're going to take a subtantial loss (>50% of retail) if you sell your gear. With the money left over (even if you buy used/vintage), you're not going to be left with much.

So, you're going to pocket a few (?) dollars, and end up with vastly inferior gear, given the amount of money spent with the proceeds. All IMO.

Keep your setup. I'm very familiar with both your speakers and Rotel amp.

[Pinknik]

Your equipment wasn't nearly as expensive as some of the things that are available today, and it's all big bang for the buck. Why buy less bang for less bucks, and go through the trouble of selling off the stuff you own now. Just stop buying new equipment. What you have now should last a very long time. Now, if you desire, you can tweak and tweak and tweak, for free. Too bright? Toilet paper over the tweeters (there's a thread here somewhere, you know there is). Too loud? Turn it down some (I know this doesn't restore dynamics, but it can make some new discs listenable). Work on your acoustics and you can dramatically change the sound.

[jt1stcav]

I dunno...I'd say keep what you've got and enjoy your best recordings on it. Save up some cash and invest in a good vintage system for your other music. It might be interesting to compare the two setups (if you have the space for two systems). That's what I'd do if I were in your shoes, unless your finances will only allow one or the other system.

[Jay F]

The 805 is a reference loudspeaker demanding of the best source and amplifier to give of their best. I've used them extensively, and they do not make music sound hideous, no matter how it has been produced.They sounded so bad, I sold half of my CD collection. Finally, it occurred to me to buy a turntable (thanks, M. Fremer). Records on my turntable sounded fine.

I wonder what the OPs system would sound like with a less revealing brand of speaker.

[TONEPUB]

I agree with Black Elk, the music sounds great on the great gear.

But here's one thing you can do for the exising system thats inexpensive
and will give it some more warmth...

Get a used Musical Fidelity Tube buffer and put the warmest sounding
pair of 12AX7's you can find!!

Or if you have efficient speakers trade your integrated for a Dynaco
PAS preamp and a Stereo 70. Nice warm sound there.

Plenty of good vintage stuff out there...

[Chip Stylus]

Ditto getting rid of the B&W's. They sound "toothy" to me. Irritating. A nice pair of Viennas will blow them away.

[bhazen]

Although I have a fairly $$$$ system, I could happily live with an entry-level system*; in fact, some of the "loud", compressed, treble-EQ'd CDs of today sound better on a cheaper, lower-rez stereo - where albums like Jet's Shine On are painfully laid bare (OUCH!) on my Naim/J.M. Reynaud system, it didn't sound bad at all on my pal's Onkyo/Sony/Bose 301 setup. Truth!

*It's all about the music innit.

I forgot to mention that good-sounding CDs sound better on my system than on my friends'...

[fxsuperglide]

The side benefit to learning to do such work (other than it being kind of fun) is that audio gear rapidly becomes demystified, and you become a much more informed consumer.

Yep! That's EXACTLY what happened when I began working on my own Linn Sondek LP12 turntables. By following the instructions and using some common sense (and stop listening to all the Linn hype), I soon learned that there's really nothing mystical about the Linn at all - yet it is a good sounding turntable nonetheless. I even took the same approach with a car that I purchased for cheap with some body damage (I've seen how the bodyshops fix it, and by being able to fix it myself, ultimately saved at least $1,000, if not more). I guess the same applies to nearly everything out there.

[Mr. X]

Yeah, I'm having second thoughts. I mean, a good recording sounds so amazing through my system. Someone pointed out to me that distortions and other flaws that I hear in recordings will now be heard on weaker equipment. The better system just brings EVERYTHING to the front more, unlike cheaper hifi's. If I'm going to downgrade anything, it should probably just be the cable. I have a pair of Transparent MusicWave Biwire that costed hundreds of dollars. I also want to eventually go 5.1, and I don't want huge cable cluttering up my space (I mean, that cable is huge). Speaker cable seems to be the most overrated component to a hifi setup. Correct me if I'm wrong...

I also keep going back and forth on Arcam vs. Rotel. If I do stay with what I have, I want to eventually upgrade my 1072 for a good DVD player. The new Rotel 109? is nice, but Arcam offers a good one for $500 less...

Oh yeah, I do love B&W's, so if I don't downgrade, I'm sticking with them. My fear is that I DO want to eventually get into the 700 series, which means more $$$. I would like to sample a pair of Vienna's, though....I'm curious.....

[SamS]

Ditto getting rid of the B&W's. They sound "toothy" to me. Irritating. A nice pair of Viennas will blow them away.


I don't follow your suggestion to the OP.

If he sells his B&Ws (which he obviously liked at some point in the past), he'll get a couple hundred dollars. How much do Vienna's cost? He's trying to save money on his rig, not spend more :confused:

[Metralla]

He's trying to save money on his rig, not spend more :confused:
Not after we are finished with him. ;)