A quick and easy way to tell your if phono playback is neutral, colored or way out..

[Steve Hoffman]

Guys,

Don't want to preach to you (or have it sound like I am) so always take what I say with a grain of sand...

A quick and easy way to tell if your system is playing back records in a neutral manner is the way I used to do it when I was in college.

Simply, you find an album that has constant noise in the lead in or lead out groove and play that part while listening in your sweet spot. Does the noise sound BALANCED or is it tipped forward, dull, too much top end, the tick and pop thing is too bright or has a pinched sound, too bass heavy, etc.? This is usually a good indicator that something in your system is amiss.

In my best system yesterday I did this little test; I took my three phono stages and played surface noise with each of them in the system. One sounded too strong in the upper midrange, one sounded so laid back that most of the noise vanished (WRONG WAY TO GO!!) and one was just right. In other words the noise was nicely balanced from bass to the top treble. So, this is the phono stage that I am using.

Since I use this Shure cart that I know is neutral, I was actually shocked that these three phono stages were so off from each other. Only the last one was actually spot on the RIAA reproducing curve (see Kevin Gray's essay):

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=106876

Now, it has to be an obvious "given" that in a playback system of any worth the SOURCE component must be neutral. For most of you that means your CD player.

Most CD players I have tested are very neutral; a colored digital player would be totally useless in a system (if you ask me) just like a colored cart would be. That "tone" would be built in to everything you listen to, bright or dull and would eventually drive you nutzy (once aware of the problem).

The goal when playing back music is neutrality of some form in your source. Once that is right you can go crazy and flavor your sound all you want. You have the confidence in knowing that at least something in your system is boringly neutral. That's a good thing..

Disclaimer: Of course this is not a scientific approach to doing this but is a quick and dirty way of getting a general idea of what your system sounds like. PLEASE NOTE, IF YOUR SYSTEM IS BALANCED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TONALLY IT WILL INFLUENCE THE RESULTS OF THE TESTING. This is obvious but I thought I'd mention it. I am assuming that your system in place right now is one you like so the "neutral" sound of your phono section will be dependant on the rest of the playback gear. Duh, but I thought I'd mention it. Just trying to help!

[Plinko]

Thank you. This helps! :righton: It is learning what is "neutral" that I struggle with.

Can one try this method with three different cartridges as opposed to three different phono stages? (just kidding!) :p

[LeeS]

Very helpful Steve. Thanks.

[Steve Hoffman]

Thank you. This helps! :righton: It is learning what is "neutral" that I struggle with.

Can one try this method with three different cartridges as opposed to three different phono stages? (just kidding!) :p

Don't laugh; you can do this if you have three head shells each mounted with a different cart. I've done this before (back when I worked in radio). I was quite surprised at the difference in "neutral" from one brand to another...

I'm not telling you all to obsess over this but if you play a record that is not correctly on RIAA be it the cart or the phono section you are cheating yourself needlessly.

[analogbass]

This works well with the obvious ones. When faced with 2 or more quality "neutral" phonos in which there are no discernible distortions, there's more to it.:D

[Key]

Ok lets complicate this a bit haha. Is there anywhere I can purchase a record with pink noise pressed onto it?

So I can basically feed the balanced pink noise through my Cartridge>Phonostage>A/D and then digitally offset the imperfections?

I've seen something like this that was $300 but all I really need is the record with the pink noise.

[Steve Hoffman]

A few years ago I have Kevin Gray cut me an "instantaneous playback disk" (aka a reference acetate) of some pink noise as well as a CD-R. I still use them all the time. You would be surprised at how much gear totally fails this simple test.

[whaaat]

Dare I ask which phono stage sounded 'just right'?

[LeeS]

A few years ago I have Kevin Gray cut me an "instantaneous playback disk" (aka a reference acetate) of some pink noise as well as a CD-R.

Can't you just buy a Cardas disc with pink noise tracks on LP?

[funkyt]

Hi Steve,

Thanks so much for putting up this post.

I am a hiphop dj and I'm currently trying to rip all my vinyl to digital format for use in a Serato setup. However, I am having great pains I as I cannot seem to achieve good quality recordings, even after many months of attempts.

I am currently using a brand new Shure M447 cartridge and a Vestax PMC 007battle mixer to record into my Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Elite soundcard in Adobe Audition. I am recording at 44100Hz in 16 bit resolution.

However, in my recordings, it appears that the highs are lacking. Just by listening to my vinyl playback, it appears that this mixer is unable to reproduce highs very well, but is there an experiment that I do (without comparing with other pre amps) that can identify if the mixer pre-amp is the culprit? This Vestax mixer is supposed to have good sound quality as far as battle mixers are concerned, but I need to know if this mixer sucks for recording.

[fmuakkassa]

I'll do the testing soon. The tough part is to have the musical ears to know that the sound is "neutral" bass to midrange to the upper highs.
I have a Stereophile test CD that has pink noise. There are vinyl test records with pink noise too.

[drh]

Guys,

Don't want to preach to you (or have it sound like I am) so always take what I say with a grain of sand...

A quick and easy way to tell if your system is playing back records in a neutral manner is the way I used to do it when I was in college. ...

Thanks, Steve--I'll give it a try. (You're a brave man to come forward with this after the battles that erupted when you opened a thread about neutrality in cartridges! ;) I use the same Shure you do, so at least that far I should be OK....)

Ok lets complicate this a bit haha. Is there anywhere I can purchase a record with pink noise pressed onto it?

So I can basically feed the balanced pink noise through my Cartridge>Phonostage>A/D and then digitally offset the imperfections?

I've seen something like this that was $300 but all I really need is the record with the pink noise.

Back in '82, Telarc put out a two-record box set for cartridge setup, alignment, and assessment called the Omnidisc. (Telarc Digital DG-10073/74) At that time, Audio-Technica was distributing Telarc records, if the sticker on my copy is any indication. It included several bands of pink noise. I'm sure you can find similar bands on any number of other test records put out during the stereo LP era; I find that such things sometimes turn up at used book sales and such, and they seldom go for many $$$.

Incidentally, in my current main setup I never have managed to get my Shure to track as well as I think it should in the "tracking ability" test; dunno if that's a function of my ineptitude at setup or the quality of my Numark table's stock arm. I probably should try it with the Linn Basik on my downstairs system sometime--and should get somebody who really knows what he's doing to go over my setup....

Oh, one final thought: I fell heir to several CBS Masterworks *78 RPM* test records a while back; they include all manner of test tones and response graphs. Thanks to the efforts of a certain ebulliant toddler, I haven't yet had a chance to explore them, but the thought of evaluating test tones through typical Columbia 78 surface noise of the period (ca WW IIish) does have its risible aspects.

[Grant]

Thank you. This helps! :righton: It is learning what is "neutral" that I struggle with.

Can one try this method with three different cartridges as opposed to three different phono stages? (just kidding!) :p
OK, it's not a close analogy, but try this: are you using a CRT monitor? Well, here's what you can do: set the colors, brightness, and contrast to the center point, or 5, zero, or what ever that may be. OK, that is neutral. Your webpage or photo is on the screen may be off, but rest assured that the image is being shown accurately to you. You may not like it, but it is what it is. If you can put those images into Photoshop and alter them, go for it. but, as Flip Wilson said, "What you see is what you get!".

[Grant]

One thing, Steve, not me, but there are those who like a colored sound from their cart, or less than stellar hearing. What then?