The Shure Stylus Force Gauge how accurate is it?

[TommyTunes]

Very. I asked Mtodde to bring over his ACOUSTECH - DIGITAL STYLUS FORCE GAUGE , I wanted to see how close I had my tables setup. I've used my Shure gauge since 1978 and kept thinking I need to spring for one of the digital cartridge gauges. Well I had one table set at 1.5 grams and the other at 1.6. When we put the Acoustech on both tables they measured. 1.50 and 1.60 exactly. In all fairness I did check the Shure gauge once using a lab weight and I knew the gauge measure +.10 so I just make the adjustment when I use it. Even Todd was amazed that I could nail it so perfectly.

[Joe Nino-Hernes]

The Shure is kind of an industry standard. Its the first and only scale that I have ever used. Although those new digital ones look pretty nifty!!

[TONEPUB]

Hey guys, you just saved me a pile of money!!

Thanks!

[fmuakkassa]

It came with my VPI Scoutmaster. Was thinking of getting a digital one. Now I might just keep the Shure one.

[mtodde]

I was surprised that they were right what Tom thought they'd be after seeing a number of posts online about their inaccuracy. I imagine the skill of the user has something to do with it too and Tom has lots of experience.

I would like to point out that my guage LOOKS like the Acoustech but I bought it on from a seller in Hong Kong for $65...still pricey but more sane than $185. As far as I can tell they are identical. Even LeeS thought so, LOL.

[Chad Etchison]

I've found the Shure to be accurate as well.

I've also found it useful to adjust VTF by ear anway, once you get in the ballpark with a gauge, then you can add/subtract a little by ear.

[jligon]

I've never owned one but if I did (when I do) it'll be the Shure. But someone tell me this...why are these necessary? I know it sounds like a stupid question but there must be something I'm missing. Don't most cartridges give a 1/2 to 3/4 gram VTF range? And then you test within those ranges to find the sweet spot? So I guess I'm confused as to why you'd need to have accuracy within .05 grams? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just curious. Also, are most turntables way off on this setting?

[crooner]

I had my VTF set at 2.2 grams with the Shure. I rechecked when I got my Expressimo digital gauge. It read 2.1 grams.

This seems to confirm Harry Weisfeld's findings that the Shure reads 0.1 grams too light.

[OcdMan]

I've checked my Shure with various weights and the gauge has been spot-on each time.

[Grant]

I have found my Shure gauge to be spot on too. The markings on the arms of a lot of tables sure aren't!

[Metralla]

I've checked my Shure with various weights and the gauge has been spot-on each time.
I did that with some brass weights from a lab beam balance. Quite OK - a little tricky with the 2x multiplier groove. For the modest investment, it's a good unit.

[crooner]

A 0.1 of a gm. is hardly worth obsessing about. You shouldn`t hear a difference.

I wasn't being obsessive. Just an observation!
I bought the digital gauge because it's so much easier to use, for me at least...

[LeeS]

Tom,

Thank you for posting this information. I think you just saved me a bunch of money. Those electronic devices are expensive.

Lee

[LeeS]

As far as I can tell they are identical. Even LeeS thought so, LOL.

Acoustech looks to have just rebranded the same device. I could not tell any difference at all.

Perhaps another high end company will paint them silver next and sell them for $400. ;) :winkgrin:

[marcb]

My shure gauge is pretty accurate when weighing a known mass (at least mine is). However, note that where the stylus contacts the shure gauge, it is higher than the surface of an LP. I have found that this can cause VTF to measure about .2 gram less than actual VTF at the surface of the LP. IMO, .2 grams can be a noticable difference -- especially at the margins of the receommended range.

[marcb]

I`m curious. How did you determine that yours is "about" 2 gms. less when all the others were dead on or w/in 1 gm.?
1) I measure a known weight with the Shure guage. I measure the same known weight with a digital gauge. I set VTF with the Shure gauge. I measure the VTF with the digital gauge at vinyl level. The Shure and the digital come out 2/10ths of a gram (not 2 grams!) different.
2) I don't doubt that others' gauges are accurate at measuring mass. So is mine. But nobody seemed to mention the 1/4" (or whatever) difference between the stylus level with the gauge and with vinyl. Even a physics dummy like me knows that this has to result in a measured difference.

All I'm saying is that the Shure gauge isn't a perfect design for setting accurate VTF. It can be accurate with a known weight and yet be inaccurate (albeit slightly) for properly measuring VTF. I offered the warning for those who might want to build a little compensation into their VTF settings with the Shure gauge and/or test it themselves.

All of this also assumes that one thinks that 2/10ths of a gram can make a difference with your particular rig. I happen to think it does.

And YMMV. Even though many say their Shures are accurate, I've read of people who have said that their Shure gauge is considerably inaccurate. Also, if one uses a mat with LPs and no mat when using the Shure gauge (or if one plays 600g LPs!), the differences will be smaller.

[Metralla]

All of this also assumes that one thinks that 2/10ths of a gram can make a difference with your particular rig. I happen to think it does.
And you'd be right.

[Tony Plachy]

Folks, FWIW, I have used an Shure gauge for decades and one came with my VPI TNT-HR. I have always found them hard to use, you move the counter weight and then wait for the balance to settle and you have to sight carefully (although you have to do that a lot when you are tuning a TT) to be sure the arm is balanced. Recently I took the plunge and bought the Expressimo Audio electronic VTF gauge from Elusive Disc for $90. (the gauge may not be available any more at any price. :sigh: ) I found my VTF to be 0.3 grams off (2.5 instead of 2.2). I think this is due to the Shure gauge being hard to use and not that it in inaccurate. Here is my post in a thread on the gauge:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2288175&postcount=33

I am very pleased with the gauge and I think I will put my Shure gauge up for sale if I can find my original. Will save the one that came with the TNT in case I decide to sell the TT.

P.S. ED still has these VTF gauges at $99 (I got mine at a 10% discount).

http://www.elusivedisc.com/products.asp?dept=890

[imperator]

Personally, I see five factors in selecting a scale.

1) Cost.
2) Lifespan.
3) Precision: how repeatable are the measurements? Without this, the scale cannot be trusted.
4) Accuracy: how close the measurements are to their true value?
5) Height. Can the scale be the same height as an LP, or do I need to build a separate platform for it?

After considering all these factors, I went for a cheap jeweler's scale ($10 off ebay).

[marcb]

And you'd be right.
I hope so when you consider that the average tracking force of a modern cart is what? 2 grams? That's a 10% variance. Or if you look at the recommended range for many carts...what's that, usually only .5 grams?

[marcb]

Personally, I see five factors in selecting a scale.

1) Cost.
2) Lifespan.
3) Precision: how repeatable are the measurements? Without this, the scale cannot be trusted.
4) Accuracy: how close the measurements are to their true value?
5) Height. Can the scale be the same height as an LP, or do I need to build a separate platform for it?

After considering all these factors, I went for a cheap jeweler's scale ($10 off ebay).
Sounds pretty good to me.:thumbsup:

[Tony Plachy]

I hope so when you consider that the average tracking force of a modern cart is what? 2 grams? That's a 10% variance. Or if you look at the recommended range for many carts...what's that, usually only .5 grams?

Mine is 1.8 to 2.2 grams.

[Jim Ricketts]

A seller on Audiogon has a digital gauge that reads to 0.001g for $55. HIGHLY recommended and far more accurate than the Shure design. And yes, you can hear difference in .1g increments.

[boneman]

I have used the shure gauge and now use a digital gauge I purchased in Audiogon. Much prefer the digital. I swear I can hear a .1 difference!

[mcow1]

The problem I have with the Shure gauge is that I can set the vtf, wait a few put the gauge back and it reads a little different. So, IMO, not very accurate.