Rumours DVD-A

[joelee]

Picked this up just for the remaster. I don't have a DVD audio player, just two speakers a tube amp ect..
Well.... I don't like this remix. Sure it's clean but it's just crappy. Cymbals up front etc... There's even more guitar parts mixed in on "Never goin back again"
Kinda reminds me of the Sixpack cd set from ZZ Top. Yuch!

Gives me the two channel original mix from the master or nothing at all. My opinion of course!

[Unknown]

Of course, if you have a DVD-Audio compatible player, you'd be able to listen to the original mix. The Rumours DVD-A contains a 5.1 mix as well as the original stereo mix (although there's some issue as to whether all the fades match the original LP). I just wanted to clear that up, because your post gives the impression that the DVD-A does not contain the original mix.

Gives me the two channel original mix from the master or nothing at all. My opinion of course![/QB]

[Sckott]

I like the DVD-A of Rumours very much. You realize that issue is not the only different mix ever released, the US stock issue has a few minor (but noticeable) differences to the original LP. Listen to the end to "Second Hand News" and "Dreams". It hasn't been right since 1988. WB put out a few RE-1, RE-2 issues since then (look at the hub matrix on your US Rumours CD), and although the sound is tighter, there's mistakes in em, and it's a much more sterile sound.

Listening to the DVD-A is just more revealing then the regular CD in some respects, and is not supposed to be the replacement for the LP or CD, whatever issue you know or have fallen in love with. I really have fallen in love with some Moody Blues DTS CDs, but that doesn't make them replace the stereo mixes. Rumours is great, not to be missed, but is not the best DVD-A ever released.

[ruyeno]

So, if I understand this correctly, if I purchase this DVD-A and play it on my regular DVD player (non-DVD-A), I can listen only to a new stereo version derived from the 5.1 mix. But, if I had a DVD-A player, I could listen to the original stereo mix.

Seems kinda odd to me. Or am I misunderstanding this?

Originally posted by David Olstein:
Of course, if you have a DVD-Audio compatible player, you'd be able to listen to the original mix. The Rumours DVD-A contains a 5.1 mix as well as the original stereo mix (although there's some issue as to whether all the fades match the original LP). I just wanted to clear that up, because your post gives the impression that the DVD-A does not contain the original mix.

[Sckott]

If you have a regular DVD player, it's gonna sound weird, because on this DVD-A, the Dolby Digital stream (5.1) sends some instruments in discreet channels. Just to mention one, "Second Hand News" puts the "dojo"(?) intro sound only in the back channels.

No. You NEED to have at least 4 channels set up to enjoy this DVD-A at all. What comes in the front 2 channels isn't enough to hear even most of the mix. There's a lot of business in the back channel, even in the center.

So, buy it for later use maybe if you plan on having a true 4 to 5.1 channel playback capability.
Otherwize, stick to the CD you already own.

[Unknown]

[QUOTE]You NEED to have at least 4 channels set up to enjoy this DVD-A at all. What comes in the front 2 channels isn't enough to hear even most of the mix. There's a lot of business in the back channel, even in the center. QUOTE]

No, NO, NO!, NO!!, NO!!!

You do NOT need to have at least 4 channels set up to enjoy the DVD-A. If you have a DVD-A player (as opposed to a standard DVD-Video player), you only need a stereo set up to enjoy the stereo mix found on the DVD-A.

The DVD-A contains three separate playback options. The first is a hi resolution 5.1 mix. This is a completely new mix created from the original multitracks. The second is a hi resolution stereo mix. Is it the ORIGINAL stereo mix? That's what the packaging says. And having listened to it, I can assure you that it's definitely NOT a newly created remix. Both hi resolution mixes are only acessible if you have a DVD-A player. If you have a standard DVD-Video player, you can only access the third playback option, which is a Dolby Digital 5.1 mix. There is almost certainly derived from the hi resolution 5.1 mix, but as a resolution of downconversion and lossy compression, it probably doesn't sound nearly as good.

All you need is two speakers - and a DVD-A player - to enjoy the hi-resolution stereo mix. If you have a DVD-Video player, it may be possible to hear a two channel downmix of the DD mix if you select a two-speaker set up on your Dolby Digital processor. Then again, it's possible that all you'll hear is the front left and front right channels of the 5.1 mix. Either way, what you hear is not going to sound like the regular stereo mix.

If, on the other hand, you want to enjoy the 5.1 in all its surround glory, you'll need a standard surround speaker set up -- front left, front right, surround left, surround right, center and subwoofer. If your front left and front right speakers are full range, you can dispense with the subwoofer. And you can probably manage without the center channel either (you can create a "phantom" center channel with the front and left main speakers). So it is correct that you do need at least four channels to truly enjoy the surround mix. But it you have a DVD-A player, you can enjoy the separate hi resolution stereo mix with a regular stereo set-up.

So Russ, if you're reading this, you're understanding was right on the money. And Sckott, if you're reading this, what were you thinking?

[Uncle Al]

Yeah this is repetitive, but basically:

DVD-Video Player: You can play a DD 5.1 remix, lower resolution than the DVD-A tracks. Because of the the DD specifications, if you only have a 2 channel system, you will hear a downmix of this version from 5.1 to 2 channel stereo.

DVD-A player: You can listen to the same mix as above - either in 5.1 or (downmixed) 2 channel. You can listen to a high resolution DVD-A version of the same 5.1 channel mix as above, or you can listen to a high resolution DVD-A version of the original 2 channel mix - remastered.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Uncle Al ]

[Sckott]

Originally posted by David Olstein:
[QUOTE]You NEED to have at least 4 channels set up to enjoy this DVD-A at all. What comes in the front 2 channels isn't enough to hear even most of the mix. There's a lot of business in the back channel, even in the center. QUOTE]

No, NO, NO!, NO!!, NO!!!

Yes yes yes, David. Do you own this DVD-A???

You don't need to be so pushy, BTW, and you basically said later in that reply, the same thing I just said. :eek:

There's a lot of the mix that's placed in the back 2 channels discreetly, in the plain ol' Dolby Digital Mix, and this is what most people are going to hear unless they have a full blown DVD-A player.

If you DO play the DVD-A in a DVD player with a normal Stereo setup, you're gonna miss a lot of the mix, and it's going to sound lonely and washed up.

There's a lot of DVD-A's that, in DD 5.1 can be concidered Stereo Compatible (The Doors DVD-A can be listened to in Stereo without too much cut out). The Rumours DVD-A is really hard-left, hard-center, hard-back-left...etc...at times.

But hey, if you listen to it with the two front speakers only, then maybe you might like it that way? Doubt it though.

A person with an average DVD player and Stereo playback is going to go "huh"? on the Rumours DVD-A. Yes, it's remixed.

David, read as Joe (above) does not have a DVD-A player, so he's gonna get the DD 5.1 weather he likes it or not, and only in stereo, there's a lot to miss. If it were someone with DVD-A equipment, then...well... most wound't have any questions about it in general I guess..


So Russ, if you're reading this, you're understanding was right on the money. And Sckott, if you're reading this, what were you thinking?

I know exactly what I was thinking. Does anyone else have any other questions? Were there any misunderstandings? Sigh.

:confused:

[lukpac]

Sckott, your missing something - the 5.1 DD mix can be downconverted to stereo by the DVD player. That's what David is talking about. So you get *everything* out of the front two channels. If you set your DVD player to 5.1 output (and only have 2 speakers) you'll only get the front information, but if you set it to stereo output you'll get everything.

[Uncle Al]

Luke is correct - the specifications for DD allow for the player to downmix the 5.1 channel mix to stereo. This can be done by either setting the DVD player to 2 channel output, or if you have connected your DVD player to your amp via digital cable - your amplifier will do the downmix (provided it has a DD decoder and is set up in 2 channel mode).

After all, many DVD videos do not have a separate stereo mix . They rely on the players ability to downmix the 5.1 mix for people who do not have surround systems.

[Unknown]

Luke -- That's not what I was getting at, although you are correct that the 5.1 Dolby Digital mix can be downmixed to stereo. I'm not sure that every processor is able to do this -- the Bryston SP1, for instance, is able to create both stereo and mono downmixes of 5.1 Dolby Digital mixes. Obviously, ever player ought to have this feature, but I suspect that some do not.

What I was saying was that IF you have a DVD-Audio player, you do not need anything more than a stereo (i.e., two-channel) set up to enjoy the DVD-A, because the DVD-A does contain a separate hi-res stereo mix -- not a downmix, mind you, but an honest to goodness stereo mix. And it's not a stereo remix created specifically for the DVD-A (unlike the 5.1 mix, which WAS created specifically for the DVD-A). I don't have the original LP, so I can't say for sure that the hi-res stereo mix is the original album mix. The packaging, however, says it is, and my ears certainly tell me its a vintage, all-analog mix. Sckott says that the stock CD contains a different mix than the original LP, but I believe the differences relate entirely to fades (certain songs that either fade in or fade out on the original LP have cold starts or endings on the CD) or a repeated chorus. Now this is just a guess on my part, but perhaps there were fades and edits added at the LP mastering stage which exist only on the LP production master and not on the original stereo mixdown master. It is well-known that the original CD reissues was mastered from a high generation LP production master, so naturally this would match the LP mix exactly. But when the CD was remastered, somebody must have pulled the original two-track midown masters and forgot to match the fades and edits to the original LP. Again, this is just a guess.

Sckott - Yes, I do have this DVD-A, and I even have a DVD-A player. The fact that you repeatedly fail to mention that the DVD-A contains a separate stereo mix suggests that perhaps you've never listened to this particular title on a DVD-A player. If you have listened to it on a DVD-A player, why would you tell Russ that he needed at least four channels to enjoy the DVD-A at all -- even on a DVD-A player -- when you only need two channels to listen to the stereo mix? Perhaps you simply think the stereo mix on the DVD-A sucks, and that the only thing worth listening to on the DVD-A is the 5.1 mix. Or maybe you don't think the stereo mix sounds any better than the stock CD. I would argue strenuously that you are wrong on both counts. But this is simply a matter of opinion. What I object to is you repeatedly giving the impression that the DVD-A does not contain a stereo mix. This is false -- demonstrably false. And I think it's wrong to post misinformation on this board.

[lukpac]

Quoth David That's not what I was getting at, although you are correct that the 5.1 Dolby Digital mix can be downmixed to stereo. I'm not sure that every processor is able to do this -- the Bryston SP1, for instance, is able to create both stereo and mono downmixes of 5.1 Dolby Digital mixes. Obviously, ever player ought to have this feature, but I suspect that some do not.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they all do. There are a *lot* of people that don't have 5.1 inputs on their stereo systems, and DVD players reflect that.

What I was saying was that IF you have a DVD-Audio player, you do not need anything more than a stereo (i.e., two-channel) set up to enjoy the DVD-A, because the DVD-A does contain a separate hi-res stereo mix -- not a downmix, mind you, but an honest to goodness stereo mix.
I don't think anyone ever questioned that. The issue was listening on a DVD-Video player, since most people don't have DVD-A players. Scott thought that listening on a DVD-V player would only get you the front 2 channels of the 5.1 mix, while I pointed out that DVD-V players will downmix the 5.1 info to stereo if you ask them to.