Another less-than-smart SACD connection question

[Jason Brown]

When listening to SACDs and DVD-As on my Pioneer DV-45A, I have been using the 2ch analog outs. There wouldn't be any reason I'm not achieving the highest resolution possible without using the L/R of the Mch in conjunction with my receiver's ext. in instead, would there?

I can't remember where on the net I read conflicting information, and my manuals aren't much help here, so I'm hoping with the information I've provided there is an easy answer.

[Gary]

I don't think so.... not really sure about the 45A, though.

Other SACD players have the ability to send out 2 ch signals through the R and L of the 5.1 (6.1?) outputs. It's sort of duplicated. Have you tried this?

I'm curious - why do you ask? Is the player or the SACDs disappointing? I still have to check that player out. $920.00 up here.....

[Jason Brown]

I have the player set up for 2ch default playback of SACDs, so I can get stereo only when using the ext. in on my receiver. I'm using the same kind of interconnects for both, and they both sound the same to me...I was just wondering because of something I read on another audio forum discussing using the 5.1 outs for SACD playback. I can't really remember the specifics, so I'm kind of curious why I ask too.

I'm not really disappointed with the player itself. The only SACD I currently have is one I have an excellent CD version of (ZYX 24-bit Willy & The Poor Boys), so I'm not realizing much improvement in realism and soundstage with the Super Audio versus the CD. I may not have the pedigree or a good enough system to realize all the benefits of SACD as it is. I can't say it doesn't sound excellent, though...I just need to hear some SACDs that I have lesser quality CDs of.

[michael w]

Hi Jason,

You probably read reports on the Philips SACD1000.

With this player it is not recommended that you listen to SACD through the two stereo outputs because these are bandwidth limited to 20kHz, even with hi-rez SACD material.

They recommend using the MCH outputs even when the player is only used in a stereo setup.


cheerio

[Patrick]

Originally posted by michael w

They recommend using the MCH outputs even when the player is only used in a stereo setup.

[/B]

Michael: By "they" do you mean the manufacturer, Philips?

[Gary Freed]

Hi Jason,

If you're player has two channel analogue outputs as well as a full set
of multi-channel outputs you will get better sound when playing two
channel music by using the two channel analogue outputs.:)

You might want to A/B the difference just to satisfy your curiosity.:righton:

[michael w]

Hi Patrick,

Yes, "they" = Philips.

It's mentioned in the manual.


Regards,

[Gary Freed]

Hi Michael,

What does Philips say the analogue stereo outputs are to be used for?

[Ed Bishop]

Originally posted by michael w
Hi Jason,

You probably read reports on the Philips SACD1000.

With this player it is not recommended that you listen to SACD through the two stereo outputs because these are bandwidth limited to 20kHz, even with hi-rez SACD material.

They recommend using the MCH outputs even when the player is only used in a stereo setup.


Exactly right. You can connect the 2-CH out, but there is a reduction in sound quality this way. Since you're only into stereo, plug in the front L/R multi out to whatever inputs(DVD? CD?)you're using on your receiver/amp. You'll get your best resolution that way. BTW, as long as you're in SACD mode--and not CD--doesn't matter what you have going in the menu, 5.1 or stereo; since you're playing a stereo disc, it will automatically default to stereo. If you buy a 5.1/stereo dual-layered disc, on the other hand, then to stay stereo you have to default there, too; otherwise, you'll get a 5.1 reduction mix, which may or may not bother you(you can set for stereo in the menu and get that mix).

Also, in a multi-channel setup, the 2-CH analog outs are to be plugged in to the DVD or CD or AUX mode of your receiver or amp, while the 6-channel outs go to the multi-channel inputs of a deck so equipped. This is useful if you're playing regular CD's or movies/concerts, since you can still use your various receiver/amp play modes, like Dolby Pro Logic I & II, or Hall or Theater Surround, etc. No such flexibility exists with the multi-channel outs; when in 6-channel, you're stuck with stereo or multi only, as encoded on the CD. So you can't enchance the signal artificially with your receiver.

ED:cool:

[Paul C.]

I have my Sony SACD player connected for stereo only, via the L/R front jacks of the 5.1 outputs. I chose not to use the L/R stereo output jacks, because a local hifi sales guy who deals in Sony stuff told me that the stereo L/R jacks are bandwidth limited, as discussed above for the Philips model. Now I don't necessarily believe that, and it's not mentioned in the manual, but that's how I've set mine up. I've tried my player through the 2 channel outputs, and it sounded fine - haven't done a close comparison.

One thing to watch out for though - at least with the Sony player I've got - is that if you run a pair of stereo speakers through the front speaker outputs of the 5.1 array, you have to specify in the setup menu for the player that you want stereo rather than 5.1 surround from those outputs (on my player it's done on a TV screen, because it is also a DVD player).

[stereo71]

I recall when I had my Sony 775 opened up, that
the stereo outs and the M/C fronts were connected
to the same traces on the circuit board. Their
output would therefore be identical. Some players,
I can't recall which, caution against connection of
both stereo and M/C simultaneously due to impedance
load problems for the output devices, but intentionally
designing any SACD player to have bandwidth limited
stereo output makes no sense whatsoever. Especially for
Sony/Philips, who marketed their units to "audiophiles".
I think the overload situation with both types of
analog outs connected was mentioned in reference to one
of the DVD-A players, but I'd need to check the archives
over at AA, where I think I saw this...

--Roger

[michael w]

Hi Gary,

The stereo outputs are for hooking up to a system for stereo playback of DVD-video discs or CD's.

It's quite popular in Europe for users of video equipment to hookup directly to a stereo capable TV. Living space is usually at a premium so not everyone has or wants a full blown HT sound system. And many new European TV's have built-in Dolby Digital decoding.


cheerio

[GoldenBoy]

I would recommend using the front L/R outs even for just stereo playback and plugging into the analogue multichannel ins on your receiver. The reason I recommend this is for two reasons - better clarity and utilisation of the sub-woofer during stereo SACD playback.

When I first hooked up my Sony C555ES, I had the L/R outs connected for stereo playback and the multichannel outs connected for multichannel as they were both going to two separate systems anyhow - one for stereo and then the A/V receiver for multichannel. When I upgraded my multichannel system, I decided to forgo the separate pre-amp/power-amp for stereo and just use my Sony STR-DA4ES for everything as, believe it or not, it actually sounded better than my separate B&K/QSC combination, but I was still using the separate stereo outs. While re-configuring my components for the new multichannel setup, I discovered that the stereo SACD playback on the C555ES could be set two ways: 2 speakers no sub and 2 speakers w/ sub. So I set it for the former. So, when SACD's are being played back in stereo, the sub-woofer is utilised as well and it adds an extra dimension to the sound. This setup, of course, requires using the multichannel outs on the player and the multichannel ins on the receiver. In order to not have to switch back and forth constantly of playing a combination of SACD's and CD's, I decided to just use the multichannel inputs for both situations, and I actually set the CD/MD input on my receiver for Multi 2 (the STR-DA4ES has 2 sets of analogue multichannel inputs - 5.1 and 7.1) as it is called. I noticed, however, that not only did the SACD's sound better, but so did the CD's. The were bigger and fuller sounding and, even though in CD playback the sub-woofer is still not utilised, there seemed to be more bottom end during CD playback.

Are the stereo outs bandwidth limited? I don't know to tell you the truth. All I know is it sounds better this way to me. I can't really comment on impedance problems from attaching both the stereo and multichannel outs simultaneously as I didn't really notice any difference in the sound when I disconnected the stereo outs.

[Gary Freed]

Originally posted by michael w

The stereo outputs are for hooking up to a system for stereo playback of DVD-video discs or CD's.


Hi Michael,

That's what I thought. Unless your collection is SACD's only you will want to use the stereo analogue outs for CD's.

Originally posted by GoldenBoy
I would recommend using the front L/R outs even for just stereo playback and plugging into the analogue multichannel ins on your receiver. The reason I recommend this is for two reasons - better clarity and utilisation of the sub-woofer during stereo SACD playback.

Are the stereo outs bandwidth limited? I don't know to tell you the truth. All I know is it sounds better this way to me. I can't really comment on impedance problems from attaching both the stereo and multichannel outs simultaneously as I didn't really notice any difference in the sound when I disconnected the stereo outs.

Hi Goldenboy,

Michael's player might be designed with a bandwidth limiter.

The only way to know for sure is to A/B the outputs.

[GoldenBoy]

Originally posted by Gary Freed


Hi Goldenboy,

Michael's player might be designed with a bandwidth limiter.

The only way to know for sure is to A/B the outputs.

That's why I recommend using the front L/R outs from the analogue multichannel outs because it is much less likely that those would be bandwidth limited.

[Jason Brown]

Originally posted by GoldenBoy
I would recommend using the front L/R outs even for just stereo playback and plugging into the analogue multichannel ins on your receiver. The reason I recommend this is for two reasons - better clarity and utilisation of the sub-woofer during stereo SACD playback.

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

GoldenBoy,
According to the manual for my Denon 3803, the only way I can shut down all digital circuitry is to be in Pure Direct mode with the subwoofer set to "off", so I listen to SACD without the sub in an attempt to achieve the best possible sound.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Gary Freed]

Hi Jason,

I have a Denon 3300. I play all my two channel recordings using Denons 5 channel stereo mode. It sounds better to my ears. The Direct never did
anything special for me.:)

[GoldenBoy]

Originally posted by Jason Brown


Thanks for your replies, everyone.

GoldenBoy,
According to the manual for my Denon 3803, the only way I can shut down all digital circuitry is to be in Pure Direct mode with the subwoofer set to "off", so I listen to SACD without the sub in an attempt to achieve the best possible sound.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Yes, but on your actual CD/SACD player there may(should?) be a setting for 2 Speakers w/sub. At least my Sony C555ES has this setting. I just asssumed that all CD/SACD players did. The player itself will send the LFE frequency to the analogue multichannel inputs. There should be no need for digital circuitry on your receiver to utilise this, just as the analogue ins should accept the subwoofer input on multichannel playback even in 'Analogue Direct' mode or 'Pure Direct' as your Dennon refers to it. Of course, I don't own a Dennon receiver, so I can't say for sure.